Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

He made some insinuations of certain people, or those associated with them, having a bad attitude towards the staff and said that the atmosphere was difficult when those people were on the unit. This prompted several parents to complaint- apparently.
Disclaimer: it is obviously not possible to confirm if this person was an actual PICU parent at GOSH. I suspect this post will be deleted as well.

Dorothea it would be a guaranteed lose. They have no chance whatsoever of successfully suing GOSH. GOSH have not been even arguably negligent.

It must be very disruptive to have all these odd people coming and going with regards to CG. The other parents must feel that they're taking the P.

i think in th future it should be total media blackout from both sides. its not fair that one side can spout shit an the other cant defend themselves

This case has really illustrated that the current processes weren't designed for a world with social media and need updating. Agree there should be an automatic process of media black out other than standard court reporting until the case is finished.

dont feel a mug mary you had faith that things were as told thats all

its just a whol diffrnt ball game

What lessons we are learning from this case. The judge tried for a form of mediation and hr would like the mediation done before a case gets to court. No this is a family court. Family courts are hot on mediation, I know this when my eldest dd was fighting for custody. The parties now have to go to mediation to see what agreements can be reached outside court and the disagreements dealt inside court. This not only saves time but also bad feelings. It is hoped that parents involved can act like adults to solve issues for the sake if the children. Judge Francis I think tried to apply the same here, only it did not work.
So in the future I suggest that mediation to see if when a medical/parents relationship breaks down is applied before even a court case is brought to avoid situations like Charlie's case.
If it goes to court then a complete gagging order on all forms of media should be enforced rigoursly.
Evidence should be presented before the court case begins and no new evidence after a certain date I.e like what might happen on Monday.
The cases should never be allowed to boomerang back to the beginning. Like this one. 3 courts made the same decision, appeals were lost, time wasting and stalling etc.
Perhaps also cases like this should go straight to high court rather than a family court, not sure on that one though.

CG has just posted on CA to say that the spokesman isn't speaking for them and is making the situation worse! It's like a bloody circus

i cant believ shes posting o dm saying the truth will com out

theres nothing t come out she cannot prove anyob is lieing wouldnt drh have agreed with hr if there was somthing going on

I just want to say that my heart goes out to all those parents with a child in PICU, or even under treatment at GOSH. Reading their stories and testimonials in the comments on FB has made me a bit teary. They all deserve our love and support.

In my opinion, it's precisely because there is a huge fear of being seen to be critical of a parent in their position, that it has been allowed to get to this point.

It seems to give immunity to any behaviour and I think that this is dangerous.

They are parents with a dying son and the whole world is watching. My heart goes out to them.

Absolutely. I feel nothing but sympathy for them. When I see how thin, exhausted and generally unwell they appear in photographs it makes me feel even more upset for them. What they are going through is just horrendous and as I've said on previous posts I don't think they will ever get over or accept this traumatic time of their lives. Part of me actually wants Charlie to be allowed the treatment so that when he does pass away C&C may be able to find some comfort that everything that could have been done to try and save his life was.

I can't blame C&C for their questionable actions because if I was fighting for my son's life in the way that they are I can't imagine I would be reasonable or rational, I would be doing absolutely anything that I thought would help even if to others it seemed crazy. I imagine C&C are at absolute breaking point and I do think this explains why they are doing and saying some of the things they are. They are just desperate people who are potentially about to lose their baby against their wishes.

CA on the other hand are just vile and baying for blood. They seem to revel in the drama of it all and I just don't understand their ways of thinking or behaving at all.

why would a spoksman for thm make a statemnt lik that without their knowledge

Chris gard has just posted on CA fb page stating that ukip 'spokesperson' is not connected with them and doesn't represent them...

BoreOfWhabylon

Still not 100% clear if the "cynical" quote was the UKIP guy. abut Chris Gard has just distanced his family from him. Robustly.

...

Chris Gard
2 minuti fa
I would just like to say that Alastair Seaton-Marsden is NOT our spokesperson.
Despite repeated requests, he has continually expressed views and put out statements on our behalf (including one just a few minutes ago) which we have NOT consented to and do not agree with. He is not helping us and he is certainly not helping Charlie. All he has done is tarnish the reputation of two parents who have been trying to save their son and we are getting a stream of abusive messages because of it.
With regards to parents being harassed in the hospital, this was Alastair getting other distressed parents to try and sign a petition which we were unaware of and would not of agreed with had we been aware. We have tried very hard not to involve other parents in our fight for Charlie as we know what a devastating place this can be for upset and anxious parents and they have enough on their plate without hearing about our problems too.
With all the stress we are under, the last thing we need is this man putting out quotes on our behalf which we do not and have not expressed.
We have always acted in Charlie's best interests and we have never slated gosh publicly, in fact we have been grateful to the staff for their care despite some conflicting issues.
All the quotes you read in the media criticising gosh, have come from him, not us.
I just want to make that clear.

Oops cross posted

I feel heart sorry for them, they are surrounding themselves with people who are out for their own gains

I can't believe she is on all these sites.

I don't know why she does it to herself, one woman on The Sun FB comments yesterday called him 'a mess' and 'a cabbage' and I've seen him referred to as 'it' regardless of what you think of CY actions that must be fucking horrific for her to read, like properly heart wrenching. I remember one little boy calling my DS 'disgusting' because of his surgery scar and that hurt me so much, that is so mild compared to what she is reading... what she is actively seeking out.

Does anyone know why my post was deleted - I was going to post something but if it is just going to be deleted I won't bother

Sorry if these derails the thread a little

Whoaaaa what's with that Chris Gard post?!

Here you go....

Screenshot of post from Chris on the CA FB page.

Interesting post, I wonder if this is how he feels, it is at odds with what CY wrote on the GOSH page.

NellieBuff no idea, don't take it personally, lots have been, including mine.

Has the TAAT been deleted yet? I hid it so I can't check.

Well now we know, but bit baffled why they did not deny the first statement put out by ukip guy a few days ago. No denial then?

We don't really know, this is what CG has said. The other family members may well support the statement.