Charlie Gard 13

[muckypup73]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Something keeps nagging away at me.

A way back - on the last thread, maybe? - there was a quote (actually from the family, I think - but please correct me if I'm wrong) to the effect that they'd 'nearly lost Charlie several times recently'. This would be perhaps within the last week or two.

In that case, who would be providing the highly-specialised medical care that ensured Charlie was not 'lost'? The parents? Or the dedicated and vastly skilled and world-renowned team at GOSH? Yes, the very one that's apparently engaged in a high-level plot to kill him.

How can anybody be spouting the grotesque rubbish we're seeing daily from CA et al when we, and they, must know that only GOSH's utmost efforts are keeping this terminally-ill little boy alive, and that without them he would have slipped away long, long ago?

My heart goes out to the parents but the situation we're now in is as wrong as anything could ever be. The latest developments are approaching the point where a form of mass hysteria seems to have taken over.

I do feel really sad that they deleted the post to ask if anyone would help towards Alfie's cause.

That was not selfless or caring. The page is very strictly controlled on content.

I could only bear to read a few posts on there. Lots of yeah Hun, and lil man type of posts. The ignorance and stupidity is staggering!

I was on fb earlier arguing with an American who genuinely seems to believe that GOSH are trying to kill Charlie to save the government money, other posts about how GOSH have stolen their parental rights and how the NHS is evil. This is the message the vocal minority have been allowed to spread. It's awful and I know a few posters have questioned why we are so bothered about what CA say. This is why. The misinformation they are spouting is doing untold damage and needs to be challenged. And I'm sorry to say that when the parents add to this misinformation they need to be challenged too.

The thing with CA lately is someone will post something and think yep that's bonkers..then later be something else even worse! Like the fake brain scans..do people believe that?! Now they reckon may be someone else like what?! Really..

I do feel for the parents, but that's because I think they've been ill advised & swept up in the whole media hype. Now it's so out of control & they're in too deep. They're clearly deluded & probably do think gosh are lying to them as believing that is easier than facing the truth. Poor Charlie will die, with or without the therapy & this 'fight' is only prolonging his suffering to delay theirs.

I don't understand why GOSH would do this. A cover up for over six months, including hundreds of staff, medical, nursing, surgical, external consults etc etc, all planned to pretend a baby was brain damaged so that they could "kill" him.

Not only is it wholly irrational to think that all the staff at GOSH would indulge in this conspiracy to "kill" one child, it's even more irrational to think they would do it this way, which exposes them to massive costs and trouble. If they really wanted to kill him, it would have been child's play to introduce an infection months ago.

But then there is absolutely nothing rational about CA. The sad thing is that, when this is all over, the vast majority of them will melt away, looking for the next sensation; the only ones left will be the conspiracy freaks, and even they will soon become more interested in the next conspiracy.

Well now off with dds and ggc for a little stroll along the beach, well they stroll and push me lol! See you later folks. Peace to all.

Co1onelblimp

When you looked did you see anything about the CA sit-in at the British Consolate in Milan that was planned for yesterday afternoon ?

I couldn't see anything on the CA page, but I don't seem to see a lot of the stuff other people do. Not sure facebook loads properly on my device.

Sostenueto Has it been reported they haven't taken counselling? That's sad 😔

I don't think it's necessarily about maturity though. I don't think they're coping well - but I guess who am I to know when I've not been in the situation. I have a huge amount of sympathy for them and nothing but disdain for Charlie's army.

Last night someone posted an article from UKIP online and it was hailed as wonderful 😲

Yes deleting the post for Alfie and the disgusting way other bereaved parents have been treated on there shows it is more about the cause celebre than any real level of compassion. The complaint about not yet receiving their keyrings as the sad news of the MRI results was being discussed in court just about sums it up for me.

So the GOSH lawyer said the scans were 'not positive' or 'sad reading' and the parents get hysterical? Even if they hadn't been told that in advance, it should have been in their range of possible results.

I mean, it's hardly a breakdown in explicit detail of any damage or prognosis. In fact, just about the mildest and most vague way of saying 'doesn't support the parents claims completely'. That shouldn't have been an enormous shock to anyone in touch with reality...

Hasn't it occurred to them if GOSH main objective was to "kill" Charlie then the minute they got the result from court saying they could withdraw life support they would have.

The stupidity on CA is breathtaking at times

Exactly sostenueto. And it feeds on the 'fighting' narrative, misguidedly used in charity campaigns. So much magical thinking.

I have faith in the judge and the process. If there is actual evidence that something will help CG and actually improve his quality of life then I am sure the judge will happily overturn his previous ruling.

If there is not.....

I hope that he is firm with everyone in Court on Monday. He has, apparently, made it clear that he wants the new evidence produced pronto, and I hope that if it isn't proceedings will be cut short. Enough pandering now.

I've even started to doubt that the judge has the courage to say ' right original order upheld'.

This is my worry too.

This case has got so huge, even across the globe, that I genuinely do fear that the Judge will allow treatment to go ahead purely because he can sense the magnitude of the uproar and the repercussions (for him and for GOSH) if he instead said that life support should be withdrawn.

I understand those concerns but I honestly doubt that the Judge will be swayed from making the Order he considers to be correct. His responsibility is to see justice is carried out - in this case, justice for Charlie.

My heart breaks for C&C but even more so for Charlie. His parents have lost sight of how best to help him (albeit through understandable grief and the need to "do something"). The Judge can only consider Charlie.

TBH, a Judge who makes decisions based on the desire to avoid possible repercussions, rather than to give justice, has no business being a Judge in the first place.

That said, I do dread to think what the after effects of all of this may be for GOSH. In all probability Charlie will pass away there, possibly quite soon, but even if the unlikely happened and he is transferred elsewhere for treatment, this treatment is still unlikely to have much use which will lead to the "GOSH should have let him be treated in March. It would have worked then. It's their fault it's not working now."

It's really a no win situation for GOSH - apart from knowing they've done what's right for little Charlie of course.

Ultimately it's no win for anyone involved 😔

No Enchanted. Sadly not .

But maryz even if there is, they'd immediately be frozen out. It's a horrible situation.

I hadn't seen any pictures of Charlie recently, but the one released in the last few days (I think) is truely sad.
He looks so bloated and
swollen. It doesn't bear thinking about the pain and discomfort he's in and unable to communicate it.

Do you think some people just don't understand that Charlie has a terminal illness that he is going to die from? Maybe because it's so rare and most people wouldn't have heard of it. I just can't imagine people saying 'look at him, he's a picture of health', 'theres nothing wrong with him' etc if he had a more recognisable disease such as cancer. I genuinely get the impression on reading some comments that some seem to think the 'only' issues he has are disabilities. They don't seem to connect those to the terminal illness that is killing him.