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London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

OP posts:
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12
HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 02:16

Sorry i dont know what happened there at the bottom of my last post.

Frouby · 24/06/2017 07:10

Helena Flowers. You do an amazing job of highlighting the issues tenants face. My brother worked for a company subcontracting to keepmoat. He hated it. It was disorganised, poorly run, rubbish rates and a general shower of shite according to him. They were also rubbish at paying subcontractors which meant his bosses company eventually almost went bankrupt waiting for wages to go in.

He is a plasterer/renderer and fitted the insulation boards to the outside of properties. Some of it is similar to the Grenfell tower cladding but he only did houses not tower blocks. It will be interesting to see what happens with the legislation on these boards and the consequences.

Also I lived in a private rented property that was on a street deemed to be in need of environmental insulation. It's a 1900s terrace. To preserve the look of the street and retain the brickwork exteriors they applied insulation cladding to the external walls on the backs of the property but applied the cladding internally. Then skimmed it.

We chose not to have it done as we knew we were moving soon. Our landlord didnt push us even though it was free as he didn't like the look of it all either. Most of the rest of the street had it done and it was chaos for months. Scaffold up for weeks on end, render splattered across cars and windows, materials blowing around.

We phoned them out 3 times. They knocked the guttering off the back of our house, blocked the outside drain with debris and render all over our decking. And we didnt even have any work done.

Frouby · 24/06/2017 07:11

Sorry that should read they applied the cladding on the front of the properties internally.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 15:01

Frouby Thanks Keepmoat are a massive PITA There was a fb complaints page that was packed with complaints.

Pilgrim Tucker has found out that more Grenfell residents are being evicted from hotels.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 16:07

Well well well. Mr "Dont you get the work done for free though" is apparently part of a family owned bathroom and kitchen installation company. He deleted his comment (i am hopeless at screen shots) but i memorised his name so took a look at his fb page. He doesnt name the company though. Strange considering that hes advertising for a plumber to join the company.

Im going to try and find out so that i can pre warn of his attitude towards HA tenants should this co. end up doing any work in tenants homes.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 16:11

BBC news were talking to a 72 year old lady with emphysema from the Camden tower blocks who spent the night in a chair from 9pm.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 16:16

Frouby Companies who operate like that are also not being fair to decent workers like your DB.

Frouby · 24/06/2017 16:59

It's rife in the industry unfortunately Helena. Dp is a builder too and we have a small company and every year at least once we struggle to get invoices settled. Have become a bit of an expert on the Construction Industries Act which is supposed to protect us but doesn't go nearly far enough. We have just wrote 25k off from 2014 which was all our profit for that year. 9k last year.

My db is the same and has gone from being a director to a subby as he can't cope with the stress of it all.

DP who is normally pretty unpolitical is absolutely disgusted by Grenfall. He cannot comprehend that a building firm could miss really basic stuff like firestopping and boxing in pipework. In his opinion the work was 'spat up' and the fixers who did it are as much to blame as the company that designed it and the council that authorised it. He believes the construction industry is about 10 years off losing vital knowledge and skills as time served trades start retiring. It's difficult now in the north to find the skill base necessary to do the work.

He reckons anyone who knew anything about fixing would have refused to do that cladding in that way as you were asking for trouble by not getting paid as it wouldn't pass any type of fire testing. Which we now know. But even before the tragedy people fixing it would have known about it.

Saucery · 24/06/2017 19:31

Do you think that the dangers would have been known to a certain level, Frouby, say Foreman or whatever?

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2017 22:21

This is quite something:

Paul Brand‏*@PaulBrandITV*

BREAKING: Government confirms that EVERY SINGLE SAMPLE of cladding tested so far across England has FAILED fire safety tests. Astonishing.
To explain, they do test the most worrying cases first, using a set of criteria. So that may explain high failure rate so far.
But by deduction, we also know that only 34 samples out of 600+ have so far been tested by the specialist lab. A long long way to go.
This is key part of Sajid Javid's statement tonight. Some councils still be hurried along to submit samples after ALL of them failed so far.

London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five
FerretChewToy · 24/06/2017 22:46

Not sure if anyone else has seen this or not?

72 firefighters, 10 fire engines called to a fire in a block of flats in Bethnal Green, fortunately it's not high rise

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/firefighters-block-flats-bethnal-green-london-a7806671.html

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 22:55

" Have become a bit of an expert on the Construction Industries Act which is supposed to protect us but doesn't go nearly far enough. We have just wrote 25k off from 2014 which was all our profit for that year. 9k last year"

Shock Shock Angry

I was talking to my dad tonight. He was a builder and site foreman from the late 1950s to 1992 (hes 81 now) He says they used to call a meeting whenever a safety issue came up. In the 1960s my dad helped to build an extension for a prestigious boarding school. He says he saw many changes during his time in that career.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 23:07

Ferret i saw that on the news earlier.

I also saw a young mum from one of the Camden being interviewed by BBC News. Shes been told that she will have to pay the hotel bill upfront herself and she will be reimbursed by the council later on. How many can afford to do that? Youve got to have the money in the first place.

ExplodedCloud · 24/06/2017 23:35

I'm horrified that the money is now being spent like water to house people in emergency hotel rooms when a little more money and diligence could have kept them safe in their own homes. A stitch in time and all that.
I agree too about trades. Particularly now, we should be investing in good apprenticeships. Support them properly and get people building, plumbing etc. If we are leaving the EU we need it. And provide education to help them run a business with legislation around payment.
We used a college leave to do some landscaping a decade ago. He's our go to chap still. Loves his job. He's doing really well for himself now but jeez he's hopeless at collecting money. We have to chase him for a bill! I wish there was some system of admin for trades leaving them free to do the work.
Helena I'd taken wine last night but I stand by my words Grin

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2017 23:43

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-fire-arconic-idUSKBN19F05M
Arconic knowingly supplied flammable panels for use in tower: emails

Uh oh... that doesn't sound good. No one took responsibility or asked questions... anywhere in this chain ??

ExplodedCloud · 25/06/2017 00:01

I'm sure none of us would condone anyone being forced from their home by threats.
On the bright side I'm sure his step father can find a spare room.

HelenaDove · 25/06/2017 00:16

Agree cloud The Smile was for your comment about being on the wine.

ive been on the choc ices. Smile

RedToothBrush · 25/06/2017 00:28

The fact that ALL the panels so far have tested as flammable suggests two scenarios:

  1. If the government are testing them on the basis of which tower blocks are most at risk, how are they deciding which ones are most at risk? A hundred percent hit rate suggests they have a particular reason why those have been tested first and they think they will fail

OR

  1. that the problem is incredibly widespread and will come back being a problem across the board which will take some time to establish.
ExplodedCloud · 25/06/2017 00:40

Fabulous choc ices Grin

Yes Red you would hope they have a plan for assessing the likely risk. You would hope...

WomanWithAltitude · 25/06/2017 08:48

This is an interesting article from the US perspective, where these materials are banned.

mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/world/europe/grenfell-tower-london-fire.html

WomanWithAltitude · 25/06/2017 09:06

It's a long read, but worthwhile. I haven't seen anything as detailed in the UK press.

mrsglowglow · 25/06/2017 09:09

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/two-shelter-board-members-derek-myers-tony-rice-quit-after-grenfell-tower-fire

Sorry if this has already been linked.

It's all creeping out now how rotten rbck has been.

And As for Rock fielding Mellon hopefully his property dealings will now finally be investigated. Again the grenfell action group were calling for his business and property purchase but nothing happened.