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London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
HemanOrSheRa · 23/06/2017 20:57

I read that on Wednesday cavemum. Contractors were putting cheaper cladding on, different to the type that was agreed. I assume still charging the higher amount. Absolutely scandalous if true.

CaveMum · 23/06/2017 20:57

None reported yet Monkey. If, as it currently appears, that Rydon Construction have been installing sub-standard cladding I'm guessing the bulk of those properties affected will be in London and the South-East as that is where they are based.

FerretChewToy · 23/06/2017 21:01

Have to say well done to Camden, but it just gets worse, it's horrendous.

I read something earlier that the suggestion had been made that all hospitals have their cladding checked as a matter of urgency too, our local hospital just had a major refit

mrsglowglow · 23/06/2017 22:06

Wow 4000 people to be evacuated in Camden! The scale of it is quite unbelievable.

RedToothBrush · 23/06/2017 22:31

Wonder who will be footing the bill for putting the Camden residents up in temporary housing?

Wonder if there will be companies going pop left, right and centre as a direct result of this - even ones who are reputable and do supply fireproof cladding.

HelenaDove · 23/06/2017 23:10

I hope anyone from those Camden tower blocks who have had to be moved further away from their place of work............their employers are going to make allowances for this if they have trouble getting to work due to the upheaval. Yes i know its being done for their safety but its going to throw up many logistical problems.

I can see some zero contract employers being arseholes over this.

RedToothBrush · 23/06/2017 23:46

Beth Rigby‏ @BethRigby (SkyNews)
NEW: source tells me Camden is gas pipe issue. "In normal times wouldn't evacuate but with cladding fail can't take any risks"

This from the other day...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/camden-council-fire-proof-cladding-flammable-panels-test-flats-grenfell-tower-fire-a7802606.html
London council to take legal advice after tests reveal wrong panels fitted to tower blocks

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 23/06/2017 23:57

Notice for Grenfell residents to leave hotel!

URGENT STATEMENT - Grenfell Tower residents evicted from emergency hotel accommodation with hours notice #GrenfellTower #Justice4Grenfell t.co/0Eyf6Im6tv

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 24/06/2017 00:01

Looks like many have been sent to leisure centres wrt

Scene inside leisure centre where dozens of beds laid out for evacuees. Shot by a resident who's "dreading" prospect of night here. #CAMDEN t.co/hjOp3NWdyf

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 24/06/2017 00:02

Sorry many Camden residents

Is it OK for the poor to be treated this eay

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 00:04

Hmm i wonder who does the gas work for these buildings or whether its in house.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 00:09

ever ive seen a clip from sky news on twitter. A young disabled lad in a wheelchair says hes been told no hotel till tomorrow. How on earth is he and the 94 year old man going to manage sleeping on an air bed on the floor.

BertieBotts · 24/06/2017 00:17

FFS I hope people aren't going after the poor fridge owner even if they are just judgy twats on newspaper websites.

Hotpoint is a perfectly normal brand and 8-11 years is a perfectly normal age for a fridge, I've definitely, absolutely had fridges older. 15 years is supposed to be the life span for a domestic appliance.

WTF is happening with evacuations tonight? I mean it's good they are evacuating if people are at risk but it sounded like an absolute shambles! Are they all okay? Confused

BertieBotts · 24/06/2017 00:18

Shit sorry, xposted, clearly not then.

FFS.

BertieBotts · 24/06/2017 00:21

Theresa May tweeting that her "thoughts" are with Camden evacuated residents.

Yeah I'm sure they're grateful for that, cheers.

squishysquirmy · 24/06/2017 00:28

"FFS I hope people aren't going after the poor fridge owner even if they are just judgey twats on newspaper websites."

I know. I really feel for the poor guy - even though it wasn't his fault at all, I imagine it will be a horrible thing to live with, even without stupid idiots pointing the finger at him.
Like you say - there's nothing unusual or irresponsible about owning an old fridge. I don't even know how old my fridge is! (Was in the house when I moved in, like most people I keep using things till they stop working). I also had a tumble drier in a rental flat combust once (it was the plug at the back and we were always careful about cleaning out the filter so nothing to do with improper use). Luckily, my flat mate spotted it before it had a chance to do much damage. Fires start sometimes. They should never spread so far and so fast as at Grenfell.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 00:36

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2560

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 00:41

Well it turns out these tower blocks in Salford have the same sort of cladding. The tenants complained and complained about the works and the slapdash way it was being done. But as usual were treated with disdain.............
From the linked article.........

"THE `LET THEM EAT SANDWICHES' AWARD

Goes to…

Pendleton Together and Keepmoat

Pendleton Together and Keepmoat, the two companies at the centre of the £650million PFI project to `make things better', had to apologise to tenants stuck in horrendous conditions during the refurbishment of their blocks this autumn.

One 73 year old man in Whitebeam Court was left living on sandwiches as his cooker was disconnected for weeks, while he and others were left without heating and hot water. Over at Spruce Court another bloke was left without daylight for nine months, as a workmen's cradle lift landed outside his window on a daily basis, while others complained of shoddy workmanship, chaos and their flats being left `like a hand grenade had gone off' (see here and see here).

Even a senior housing officer on the project stated that he was "shocked" and "disturbed" after visiting some of the tenants' flats. Pendleton Together and Keepmoat were forced to apologise for the disruption and promised "additional support for those in difficult circumstances relating to lack of finance or specific personal needs", and an "emergency compensation scheme".

The `emergency compensation scheme' turned out to include £1 per day for those left without washing facilities, and £2 per day for those who had no cooking facilities. Just think of all the butties the 73 year old could buy with that!

Now the Salford Star is hearing that, despite the apologies and very generous cooking and washing compensation, there's still trouble in them there towerblocks. Could it all be connected with cutting corners to make bigger profits for the PFI investors around the world?

So hang your We don't matter' banners out of your 16th floor flat and pay homage to the winners of the Salford Star Mary Burns Let Them Eat Sandwiches' Award...

...Pendleton Together and Keepmoat!!! "

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2017 01:22

Ed Miliband @ edmiliband
1/ In 2007, on flooding, and foot and mouth, COBRA played a critical role. It is inexplicable to me that COBRA has not been convened...
2/ COBRA should be co-ordinating the process of cladding inspection, evacuation, management and rehousing...
3/That COBRA appears not to have even met suggests a total failure of grip at the heart of government.

I think Ed's wrong btw. It's not what it suggests. What it suggests is... Yeah. Not good.

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 01:25

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2390

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 01:29

More on the shit the Salford residents went through. They complained and complained about the works and were put through seven shades of crap. And the cladding was unsafe and now has to come off.

"They said it would be the best thing since sliced bread...now I'm living on sandwiches..."

73 year old George Astley was the first resident to move into Whitebeam Court years ago, after his family's house was compulsorily purchased and bulldozed by Salford Council. There's still nothing built on the former street.

Since then, he's made Whitebeam Court his home and was quite happy there – until Salford Council came knocking again, promising to `change' Pendleton for the better.

"They said it would be the best thing since sliced bread" George recalls "All we get is pamphlets through the door about what they're going to with Salford but there's people living in Salford."

George and all the residents we speak to describe horrific living conditions since the Keepmoat work crews came in to refurbish the block as part of the first phase of the £650million Pendleton Together PFI project - which will see 1,250 homes receive a `makeover' as well as 1,500, largely unaffordable, new homes built and hundreds demolished (see previous Salford Star article – click here).

George, whose flat has been ripped apart around him, has gone without hot water for two weeks, and has just a microwave to heat food since his gas cooker was disconnected weeks ago.

"I can't eat ready meals, I don't like them, and I can't afford to go to a restaurant so I'm living on sandwiches" he explains "I'm also waiting to see my electric bill coming in as they're plugging everything into my electric and leaving the lights on.

"There's dust everywhere" he adds, and, pointing out bits of cable and pipes hanging everywhere and holes in the wall, explains "We call it a demolition squad and that's what they are. They cut my bell off and it's nowt to do with electric, it's batteries. They cut it off on the wire, they don't give a toss what they do. The guy across the way had his phone line cut before they even started. They were supposed to have put my heating in yesterday but half the radiators are not connected...

"They started doing the lift in April and said it would take 22 weeks to do the job; it's still not done; it's just disorganised, they don't know what they're doing" he explains "I've worked on building sites all my life, I was with British Gas for 32 years, but these have no idea. Noise? From 7am to 4:30pm there's a generator going all day, it drives you nuts...

"I'm 73 I don't need this" he sighs "I don't know how older, less well people are going to cope. Every weekend I'm cleaning when I could be out. Complain? Who to? They don't care. It's ok for them, they go home to a nice clean house with a hot meal - I'm living on sandwiches."

George's sentiments are echoed by other residents... "It's been chaos all the time" says John Clarkson "They left my flat like a hand grenade had gone off."

And Jamie on the 11th floor agrees with the war metaphor... "It's catastrophic, it's demoralising" he says "I expected it to be bad, you're living on a building site so it's going to be bad, but not this bad in my wildest dreams. I've seen houses after they've been hit by artillery and they look better than what my hall looked like when I had four loads of electricians and plumbers, all working at the same time" he adds "...Cables hanging out the ceiling, floors being flooded all at the same time...You're expected to live in one room; with no exaggeration it was like living in a war zone. They gave us dust sheets on day 17!"

Many feel that the more vulnerable residents should have been decanted to other properties while the work was ongoing... "On this block there's a lot of hurt and upset" Jamie explains "We've got people with so many issues – mental health, disability...only yesterday one person had got everything boxed up and they were walking over everything he owns.

"...One lady downstairs said that she'd had to send out for so many meals in the last few months she can't fit into a dress she bought for a wedding!" he adds "Some of us can cope but for some of these people the difference between making it and not making it is a fiver a week. They can't send out for food, so they have a choice, heat or eat. And that's wrong."

Indeed, the Salford Star has seen an email by a senior housing officer on the project which stated that he was "shocked" and "disturbed" at what he had seen after visiting some of the tenants' flats. And last week, the head of the PFI, Paul Longshaw, and Salford Council Assistant Mayor, Paul Dennett, met around twenty residents to try and sort out the mess.

"The human side of this has been totally disregarded and there's no regard for people living on this building site, for that's what it is" says another resident "As long as it looks good on the outside that's all they care about. And that's the worst part of it, that the human side has not even been considered."

Indeed, the hype around Pendleton Together isn't just about the outside appearance but also the new `environmental system' installed in all the flats, in the form of what looks like a giant silver fridge.

The Star was told that it's a potential fuel poverty nightmare waiting to happen. Apparently the environmental system is only cheaper if it isn't switched off, or cut off through power failure or someone's credit running out; or someone getting confused by the 15 page booklet and switching it off by mistake.

"It has to stay on 24 hours a day seven days a week" says Jamie "If you turn it off and the temperature drops down inside, when you turn it back on again you've got two basic immersion heaters screaming their heads off at the same time. Normally you'd put £10 in it which would do people for a week but to boost the system back up would see your £10 gone straight away. We've tried to sort out a fund for people who are in fuel poverty.

"The system is also only cheaper with 100% insulation" he adds "At the moment, our windows are unsealed, we've got six inch holes in the wall and we're heating the moon..."

ExplodedCloud · 24/06/2017 01:46

Helena I haven't been on all these threads because I have little to do other than bystand. However I have read your threads over an extended period of time, particularly about LG and the general attitude that social housing tenants should be grateful for scraps.
I just want to say that it's so fucking sad that your time has finally come in such an awful way and your posting has turned out to be important: (
Keep on fighting Star You had a point. You have a point.

gluteustothemaximus · 24/06/2017 02:04

I'm all for the evacuation and making sure residents are safe. Not too sure about the logistics of people sleeping in centres on air beds? Sounds like hell. What do the elderly do? What do people in wheelchairs do?

DH, said he bet they do the whole air bed thing so most people go and find friends or family to stay with, and then they just have to put up the rest in hotels.

It's great they are thinking of safety, but they really need to be thinking logistically too. For work, travel, school...being evacuated at 8.30 in the evening. Dc3 would be in that centre screaming his head off.

If you had the money, you'd get a hotel. But that would be out of most people's reach surely, hotel prices in London are so expensive.

ExplodedCloud · 24/06/2017 02:11

It's liability isn't it? They aren't forcing people to leave but if the shit hits the fan, they are covered...

HelenaDove · 24/06/2017 02:14

Cloud Thats very kind Thanks I really wish with all my heart this shocking and completely avoidable tragedy hadnt happened .

People died Children died Its so so sad. And the survivors have been treated appallingly

And all completely bloody preventable. im so so angry. And the victim blaming of residents ive seen elsewhere is appalling. Incredibly upsetting.

I really wish id been wrong. I really do Thanks

i wish id