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London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

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Thread gallery
12
Slimthistime · 20/06/2017 21:23

"his scares the hell out of me. The idea of being sealed in and not able to escape. Terrifying. As last weeks showed."

hang on, the door strip expanding wouldn't stop you from opening your door would it? i thought it would just expand to act as an excluder from smoke.

HelenaDove · 20/06/2017 21:44

Oh my God My MP has complained to the local paper about someone pointing out on a fb group that he voted against making homes fit for human habitation.

Now if hes seen this he must have also seen the nasty victim blaming comments about Grenfell residents underneath and yet there is no mention of them in the article.

Comments like how its the fault of asylum seekers who dont know how to use electrical/gas appliances. Really nasty stuff.

A few years back there was a twitter account going by the name of Old Holborn (i think that was the name) who was making inflammatory comments about the Hillsborough victims/survivors. He got arrested. Quite rightly IMO.

Yet here.............nothing.

Slimthistime · 20/06/2017 21:50

how can the MP complain about information going on the FB group when said information is freely available?

Is that actually the nature of his complaint or is he going with my MP's excuse - which was "I voted against it because sufficient laws are in place"? !!!

Hairydilemma · 20/06/2017 21:55

Knockmedown, I read that too (about the hospital receiving far fewer injured people than they expected).

I remember hospitals in NY saying similar on 9/11 - they were geared up for a huge influx of casualties, but they never materialised because almost everyone was dead Sad.

HelenaDove · 20/06/2017 21:58

Oh beg pardon. Holborn wasnt arrested. He just had his twitter account suspended. Ive just checked some old articles. Sorry i got that wrong but it was five years ago.

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 20/06/2017 22:03

I just cannot believe that this hadn't even happened only a week ago. It feels like the world has shifted. If one small ray of hope can come out of the tragedy, it's that none of us can claim ignorance of the real extent of Britain's social housing crisis any longer and it must change. RIP.

HelenaDove · 20/06/2017 22:05

MP is saying that what they were voting on would not have made a difference at Grenfell because it didnt include social housing.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 20/06/2017 22:05

Yes Jennifer . Agree 100%

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 20/06/2017 22:10

This is what my local council HA is saying about its cladding. Is this good enough do you think? There are no high rises but it doesn't sit well with me.

The service confirmed that the insulation material used in our external wall insulation is an expanded polystyrene system, with a render finish applied to the external face. However, the way in which the material is encapsulated on our properties is very different to the way it was reportedly used at Grenfell Tower. The external wall insulation product is fixed to the dwellings with no significant void between the property and insulation, this means there is no continuous void to act as a chimney or oxygen source. The product is encapsulated within a render finish which should increase the fire resistance of the insulation system; this insulation system is certified by the British Board of Agreement.

BurnTheBlackSuit · 20/06/2017 22:11

It sounds a bit like "we hope it will be ok, but it's still flammable" to me Jennifer.

HelenaDove · 20/06/2017 22:12

And yet @NearlyLegal on twitter the housing lawyer who helped to draft it says it DID include social housing.

Hes had to correct another MP already.

twitter.com/nearlylegal/status/876137016102092800

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 22:40

stopfuckingshoutingatme I'm interested to know how charitable funds, situated in various places will be disbursed. My concerns are these:

  1. Monies are used to provide additional support to victims and not to defray costs that occur in local and central government meeting their responsibilities
  2. That money is disbursed in a timely fashion i.e. swiftly enough to meet needs but also learning the lessons from e.g. the tsunami to ensure that the money has impact and reaches the right people (the affected families). To me this probably means some money spent quickly and then ongoing support in more depth over an extended period.
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RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 22:52

stopfuckingshoutingatme

I gave via the Big Give website (a giving portal) as they are doubling donations. The charity that benefits is the Kensington and Chelsea Foundation.

Here is a link to their front page

The first and immediate response is to help with the desperate and urgent situation facing members of the community by releasing £100,000 to local well-established organisations working on the frontline. This will be passed on in the form of payments to people from Grenfell Tower who have lost their homes or those who are displaced.

These cash payments will help these people to receive the immediate relief they need in the coming weeks, whether it be for food, clothing, transport or any other essential items to help them at this awful time.

The organisations who will distribute the funds are Rugby Portobello Trust, ClementJames Centre, Venture Community Association, The Harrow Club and Westway Trust working at the Westway Sports Centre and Westway Learning.

People in immediate need should contact one of these organisations to discuss their needs. The process will be made as simple and speedy as possible.

Looking ahead, this will be a long and complicated relief effort and the Kensington & Chelsea Foundation will be looking at the next steps to support those affected, working with the local community and voluntary sector.

Press release dated 17 June

Picture attached is a screenshot of their front page.

London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five
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FerretChewToy · 20/06/2017 22:53

Trouble is Rhythm, where do you go when no one wants to take charge?

Slimthistime · 20/06/2017 23:03

Thanks Helena

re co-ordination, does this mean they have no plan of action if there's a massive terror attack etc, - I'm not sure it does tbh, there's a bit of me thinking that if it hadn't been a social housing block that burned, they'd have had a better crisis response. Or maybe i'm being extra sceptical, not sure.

HelenaDove · 20/06/2017 23:05

Slim i think that has crossed a lot of peoples minds to tbh.

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 23:16

Just Giving website takes £115, 000 fee from Grenfell Tower donations

Telegraph reports on Just Giving's 7.6% fees.

I used to work in the charity sector, so I know from experience that all these giving sites have fees. That's fine, they do often save on admin costs. Just some have higher fees than others. Some are private companies, some are non-profit making charities.

The Big Give site I mentioned before, their fees are 4%. On this occasion, they are doubling donations so 100% is being added. They regularly run match funding promotions, if you are looking for trustees they have a database you can access to find willing people with the right skill set/experience, that kind of thing. Also, in my direct experience when working for a tiny charity, dealing with them isn't onerous.

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RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 23:33

stopfuckingshoutingatme I am also concerned with the fact that there are lots of disparate charitable pots, via different charities and different people. From charity singles to individual pages on Just Giving, how is this all going to be joined up?

We're already seeing the effects on the ground of there being no central co-ordination. I don't want to see this chaos replicated in the way the charitable funds are used.

At a very basic level, Just Giving have given assurances that they will not release funds raised under a Grenfell Tower banner without making checks as to the validity of the person or organization behind the page. So there's little chance of outright fraud I think.

However, with International Disasters, there is an umbrella group, The Disasters Emergency Commitee (DEC) an umbrella group who give oversight to how money is raised and spent.

As far as I can see, there is no-one taking a helicopter view here.

And I think that will be needed. There is a huge potential for duplication, misdirection here. I am especially concerned about the ptotential danger for charitable donations to be used in such a way that relieves local and central government from their responsibilities.

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Slimthistime · 20/06/2017 23:39

Rhythm "I am especially concerned about the ptotential danger for charitable donations to be used in such a way that relieves local and central government from their responsibilities."

yes, mum donated money and she's saying that too now. I had a colleague drive some stuff in but we have no way of knowing if it got used or collected. I don't mind at all if it goes to some other charity but I think there's a real issue that council funds won't be used because of charitable funds.

Slimthistime · 20/06/2017 23:40

and again, sorry if ranting, but this seems like what David Cameron wanted with his Big Society - people taking responsibility for stuff the govt should be doing.

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 23:53

Ferret The short answer, at the moment, is the British Red Cross

Grenfell Tower Fire Support for People Affected

But the longer answer is I think that there was a lack of immediate, planned, co-ordinated emergency support on the ground. The local council wasn't able to do that. They didn't have good enough emergency planning, including properly trained and experienced staff in place. That is widely acknowledged now.

I think there are people/organizations who want to step up, to the point even of taking charge. But they are not allowed to assume that responsibility without permission.

I'll repost this article as it is pertinent British Red Cross responds to Grenfell

Excerpts from articles

"If these systems are not established and humanitarian needs are not met, it is more than understandable that people will get angry and feel let down. The operation following last week’s Grenfell Tower fire was intensely complex, and the truth of what happened will take time to come out in full. The question of whether the above steps were followed will have to be answered – we owe it to the community and to all those affected by this horrific fire.

Last week the British Red Cross was asked by Kensington and Chelsea council to send in volunteers in the early hours of Wednesday morning, and after that to help staff the rest centres. We stood ready to do more in the days that followed, but as a voluntary organisation we cannot self-deploy. We need to be invited in by the authorities.

When Gold Command, the new emergency services network in place to manage disasters, took control last Saturday, the Red Cross was asked to step up our role. This included more volunteers trained in providing practical and emotional support for every family involved, and helping to create a community assistance centre that would provide more wraparound care. Our 24/7 support line is now the central point of contact for people affected. We are trying to provide better, more joined-up information to the families through social media and on the ground."

So that to me seems to be painting an outline picture as follows...
Last week, RBKC asked the British Red Cross for help, but didn't empower them to take charge. And they also didn't take charge themselves. Then, later on, central government said "this isn't good enough" and sent in some people. This includes people from other councils in London, as well as civil servants. At that point, the British Red Cross was asked to step up and did so.

My gut feeling is that the initial delay in getting organized meant that additional problems had already been caused. Problems that could have been avoided if e.g. the Red Cross had been asked to step up earlier or some central co-ordination had been conducted swiftly.

The other thing worth noting about this is that in this type of situation, local background knowledge is key. So the British Red Cross don't have that, Ealing Council don't have that, nor do any of the other councils or civil service departments sent in. They don't know the area. By luck, some of the Red Cross Volunteers or employees of other councils might know something about the area, may have lived there before, but that's accidental, patchy, not planned, systematic, comprehensive. That must still be causing them huge problems, problems exacerbated by the fact that things had already been allowed to get out of hand for -years-- days by lack of co-ordinated response.

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RhythmAndStealth · 21/06/2017 00:07

Grenfell Tower: "They are still checking who was there and who survived"

"Amina Mohamed escaped the eighth floor with her nephew. Almost a week on, she finally feels relief organisations are taking residents’ concerns seriously."

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Bloomed · 21/06/2017 00:36

HelenaDove can you link to the local paper with the complaining MP?

HelenaDove · 21/06/2017 00:39

twitter.com/nearlylegal/status/877292603020111872

Follow this twitter thread. It includes the article Can someone screenshot it if poss Im shit at screenshots.

Swipe left for the next trending thread