In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

2015 being before Grenfell was refurbished. ie if they had acted on recommendations at put them into law, the tragedy would have been avoided

All four of the mp's who were sent those letters are no longer in the commons. Williams lost in 2015, Pickles retired this election and Wharton and Barwell lost their seats this year.

Barwell is May's Chief of Staff though

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/gavin-barwell-theresa-mays-new-chief-staff-refuses-answer-questions/

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/10/gavin-barwell-appointed-theresa-mays-chief-of-staff

How very convenient.

However, Barwell is TMs chief of staff now though, replacing the two who were forced to resign after the election.

Paget Brown shows no remorse because he hasn't got any.
My boss suggested he be shot. Never heard her make such a comment before. But such is the rage.

The way Paget Brown sat there and emitted a load of guff "we need to know how the fire started and spread" he already bloody knows and this smacked of victim blaming to me.

Elsewhere....

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=3937

From the article.

"While there has been no official word on what caused the horrific blaze at Grenfell Tower in London this week, experts seem to be agreeing that the cladding certainly contributed to the speed in which the fire spread, with tragic results.

In Salford, the majority of tower blocks have been re-clad, with the most visible example being the high rises along the Crecent, including Thorn Court, Spruce Court, Whitebeam Court and Malthus Court.

Here, all the hype surrounding the refurbishments has been about appearance rather than tenant safety…

"The design has been developed to provide colour and interest at key focal points" stated Pendleton Together "...The rationale for the treatment of Spruce and Thorn is based on the use of the same highly robust and crisply detailed cladding panel, but using two different shades of colour.

"The panel itself, known as 'Chameleon' creates a very dynamic appearance, changing colour as it catches the light" the company slathered "This means that each plane of the building can appear as a different colour shade, depending on the aspect and time of day. The interplay of light and shade and changing colour tones, within each tower and from one tower to the next, will create a mesmerising effect.

"These colours have been carefully considered and selected in conjunction with Salford City Council's planning and design advisors and help to create a stronger sense of character and identity for what are large, grey and somewhat oppressive
buildings" it added "...As the buildings sit adjacent to a major highway they are seen by the public when on the move."

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I read that ID-ing some of those lost may be complicated by thee fact that all of their possessions perished with them - the point being that there may be little left to compare DNA with (hairbrushes, traces on clothing, etc.)

In the case of recent arrivals it's complicated again by perhaps having to secure DNA through countries which may have different systems - or even no systems at all

Sadly, this may all add to the delays - and of course delay, while sometimes unavoidable, can be very hard to bear

Dept. Communities and local government today:. www.gov.uk/government/news/communities-secretary-statement-safety-checks-following-the-grenfell-tower-fire

Im so angry It was completely fucking preventable.

Me too. So so angry. Not one of those people would have died if other people had cared enough to do the job they were elected to do and paid to do by us.

The Tragedy of Grenfell is that so many so it coming

Contains a reference to the 1999 tower block fire in Irvine, Scotland- the fire incident to highlight the potential dangers of cladding.

Article on Irvine fire from the Herald at the time.

One angry resident said: ''How can an elderly, disabled man who has already had a fire be moved to another high-rise flat in the same block? Questions need to be answered.''

Four people were taken to Crosshouse Hospital, Kilmarnock, suffering the effects of smoke inhalation. An 85-year-old woman and a man, aged 35, were detained. Two men, aged 68 and 75, were released after treatment.

A leading firefighter said it was fortunate the blaze took hold during the day as had it been at night there could have been ''multiple fatalities''.

Local Labour MP for Cunninghame South, Mr Brian Donohoe, called for a full inquiry into the fire which turned the 100ft block into a towering inferno in a matter of minutes.

Speaking from the scene close to his home, he said: ''The first thing that has to be done is to establish the facts, then if needs be, an inquiry to look at the way these flats have been constructed and, indeed, renovated.

''I understand renovation work had been carried out in the past few years."

She said: 'By the time we got out the smoke was coming down the stairs and the windows outside were exploding one by one. The flames were terrible and I've never seen anything go up so quickly.

'When I came down there were three floors burning, but in 10 minutes it was right up to the 13th.''

Link to an article in Building on the questions and safety concerns raised after the Irvine fire

Grenfell cladding was banned in the UK says Chancellor Building magazine's technical editor examine the regulations in some detail @PigletJohn you will probably find this interesting if you haven't seen it already.

Grenfell Tower fire should this cladding be allowed?

Panorama said the cladding wasn't banned, that it was advisory only that it should not be used in such high rises.

The article above makes some interesting points about those regulations Brasty. It appears there is some contradiction in the legislation.

I'm concerned about sloppy drafting of regulations (as well as, obviously, the regulations being massively overdue for review).

David Cameron said his 2012 New Year's Resolution was to "kill off the health and safety culture for good".

He set out his plans to cut back the "health and safety monster" to make things easier for business. He said "We need to realise, collectively, that we cannot eliminate risk and that some accidents are inevitable"

If you take this kind of cavalier attitude with people's lives, this is what will happen, eventually.

These people are not fit to govern, their relentless persuit of profit before people puts us ALL at risk.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-i-will-kill-off-safety-culture-6285238.html

Ah those effing planners who only care about appearance. WTF is wrong with these people.

Those links are an interesting read Rhythm. Those dangers have been known about by the relevant bodies and people for nigh on twenty years. And yet more needless completely preventable deaths in a fire.

WHY!!!!!

Just makes you sick doesn't it. Money vs Safety. Money winning each time. But yet they're very quick to waste money on pointless road humps in some areas where they are not needed or unnecessarily widening pavements so roads are narrower etc. It appears they do not learn their lesson.

I've not read the full thread but the residents seems to show poor judgement with overcrowding and subletting and having bed sits.
the building was not meant to be used like that.
i'm interested to see if the warm weather meant people propped open fire doors.

RTFT.

Please don't indulge in disgusting victim blaming Out.

Have you seen the footage of the outside of the building going up like a torch?

I've read several pages of posts on several of the treads.
I've seen the footage.
it's a horrible situation and there will be some human factors involved.
and the human factors will not all be government officials.

^I've not read the full thread but the residents seems to show poor judgement with overcrowding and subletting and having bed sits.
the building was not meant to be used like that.
i'm interested to see if the warm weather meant people propped open fire doors^

And the end of the day, people are unpredictable and not always aware of risk. When building housing such as this, that should be taken into account.

I'm more interested in why there were no smoke alarms than whether fire doors were propped open. Although, if fire doors were propped open, I'd question why there were fire doors installed that could be propped open without triggering some kind of alarm.

I'd also like to know why the overcrowding was allowed? Why were these poor families crammed into unsuitable housing? Why was no-one helping them find appropriate accommodation?

Just want to add that Rydon, the contractor responsible for the refurb, are total charlatans. They worked on a new build development of flats (mixed, social, private and shared ownership) that I moved into a few years ago (since moved out again, thankfully).

The number of problems in that block was shocking beyond belief - they cut corners at the expense of the residents, used cheap materials, caused all manner of defects that subsequent trades people who came in to fix them said they'd never seen anything like it.
The management company (Family Mosaic) couldn't give a fuck either, and residents are still embroiled in all manner of disputes against them, with complaints falling on deaf ears, same as in this tragedy.

It didn't surprise me in the slightest when I read that Rydon had been involved in this, not at all.