In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

[RhythmAndStealth]

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5
Khadija Saye, 24
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23

At least thirty people confirmed to have died

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care

Many people homeless and dispossessed

Many bereaved

Many traumatised

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

Agree about Cundy Rhythm .

The video of the man who says a firefighter friend found 40-odd people in one room is upthread. I'll see if I can find it...

Here -
m.youtube.com/watch?v=HRS76v5PTik

I'm not being ignorant.

You are a random person who has so far posted a silly FB/Twitter meme (I've seen it doing the rounds) and then come out with a story about 42 people which is also doing the rounds on twitter. It is pretty logical to conclude that's where you got it from.

If, of course, you were the firefighter, or the person who the firefighter told, then I apologise. I somehow don't think you were though.

Becca19962014
@Becca19962014 I'm so sorry :(

I'm so scared this is going to happen to me. I tried to get on the housing list a few years ago and was told the same, plus some other barriers thrown up which after 18mths I gave up.

Like my form and medical evidence being 'lost' by the disabled 'help service' (snort, fucking help indeed). Then the repeat form being allegedly 'sent back' and rejected as it needed to be rewritten into a whole new format. Then the 'advocacy help service person took my original copies of everything with them from my house by accident, which never rematerialised. They then pulled out as they lost out to tender with a cheaper tri-borough service which never materialized at all (no wonder it was cheaper).

Catalogue of errors and final straw was that any flat they find doesn't have to be accessible for me to enter, exit or store a wheelchair or other mobility equipment. Then as you say, you get taken off the list for refusing a completely unsuitable flat.

Oh the final straw was that the council decided I MUST have a 3 bedroom place as I must accept a live-in carer although I don't have a live in carer nor need one and have never met the criteria for one! There is no 3 bed housing stock and once they've decided what type of flat you need they won't let you go for any other type so would never be housed (according to the housing charity i asked for advice). Also... this would have counted as an extra bedroom (though I think that's changed? Maybe?), so quite how I was supposed to pay for it I have no idea. Was told that was nothing to do with the council housing or adult social services though!

So I gave up and struggled on trying to pay for it myself, and now in a complete emergency and not even on the housing list in spite of all that effort.

I know this is selfish but I am so SO scared I will burn to death like the poor people in the tower. And no one will give a fuck.

Keep having panic attacks about it and keep crying for those poor people burning alive. Their terror, I can feel it too well and I know it's selfish but I feel like ive just seen how I will die.

Captain Sorry i didnt mean it to sound like i was having a go btw.

I just meant to reiterate its there in black and white. Done to make the tower look good.

As it goes I was there when that video was being filmed. I'd much prefer to believe them than the media.

You talk like you own this thread. It's for anyone to come in and comment.

I don't know what your problem is. Everyone has their views and opinions.

Wellthisisshit. thats ridiculous. im so sorry. Surely they are in breach of the Equality Act.

kiri i can well believe it too.

But then who can blame you for believing the media when they are the only source of information you have to go on. I mean living In Edinburgh means you can't actually speak to the residents and get first hand information yourself can you.

wellthisisshit

You aren't alone in your struggle, I hope the parts I've put on here of what I've gone through will at least show you that. "Suitable" for us as disabled people doesn't equate with "suitable" for the council team. They don't care about access or affordable (I'm speaking from personal experience here, I've no idea about areas other than mine).

I totally understand your fears. I have them too. I can't really offer any advice to you, I live very rurally and services that help don't exist here, but I can recommend doing a thread elsewhere on MN and asking people for help and support. There are organisations that can help, assuming you aren't rural like I am (where everything has, literally, gone south and no longer available in my area) and I'd urge you to contact them. I had lots of suggestions for help.

With the panic attacks and blind fear, you're not being selfish, you're frightened, which given the saturation by the media of grenfell is understandable. Don't beat yourself up about it by calling yourself selfish. I know that's what others have said to me and it's hard, very hard, advice to follow.

No, I don't talk like I own the thread. I am, however, someone who is pretty cool headed and very rational and analytical. So when people say things which don't add up or don't make sense I tend to go away and research. Look back, you'll see I regularly dig out facts, figures, etc. This story is dramatic and traumatic enough without lots of mistruths.

You've stated that a firefighter saw 42 bodies in one room. Now, looking at the floorplans the largest flats were 75 square metres (excluding the new ones which were below the level of the fire), with the largest rooms being roughly 20. I'm sorry, but I do not believe that there were 42 people in a 20 square metre room. That just does not make any logical sense. So no, I don't believe that story no matter how upset or convincing the person at the scene was.

There have been numerous videos from the scene which have turned out to, unfortunately or fortunately depending on their content, be nonsense.

wellthisisshit I'm not trying to stop you contributing to the thread! I'm just making a suggestion that could possibly help you.

I posted that before I saw your last jibe. "I saw someone recording a video of something they said they heard from someone who says they say it" does not equal first hand knowledge.

If you're on the ground there then I'm sure you are talking to some very traumatised people, but it doesn't mean everything that is being said is true. Not necessarily through malice, but through confusion, chaos and rumour.

I'm going to bow out of this thread for now, because I have no desire to get in to an argument with you and derail the thread.

OK I have heard via a via of some one on the ground on Friday the count (and I hate saying that) was 174. On Friday

Ordinarily yes I agree it's a small space for 42 people considering it's 1 person per sq metre. But in a situation like this it's quite possible they did not have a choice but to squeeze in. Don't forget there were kids too they would have taken less space and allowed more people to get in.

I don't believe these personal videos are nonsense and untruthful. What do they have to gain from it? Nothing.

Remember the walls have burned out so a room could mean a whole flat or even a whole floor. 42 bodies on one of the higher floors is not as far fetched.

If those men are to be believed (and to be honest, I have more trust in locals than the media/officials right now), then it's not unlikely that all those people huddled together in one apartment, perhaps because there was less smoke or something?

But I agree that we ought to prepare ourselves for a large jump in the death toll tomorrow, sadly.

Ive just read the blog post written by a Grenfell firefighter. Im in awe of what they do

Prosecutors are considering manslaughter charges after Grenfell Tower disaster, Keir Starmer reveals

Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr show he said: “I spoke to the DPP yesterday and there are prosecutors already in advising the police. So the criminal investigation really has to come first.

"Normally an inquest will only take place at the end of the criminal investigation, so the idea of an inquiry is important because that can, in some circumstances, happen much more quickly and I think speed is of the essence here."

Sir Keir said prosecutors were currently part of the investigation
Asked if they would be looking specifically into manslaughter charges, he said: "Yes."

Adding: “When we were looking at this when I was DPP in relation to other fires, we were looking at manslaughter charges.”

"There are wider regulatory offences but I think manslaughter is the most serious and that’s the one that needs to be looked at first.

"So a public inquiry allows things to happen more quickly and allows a broader range of questions and inquests come usually at the end of the exercise."

He added that all political parties "need to ask serious questions about why recommendations in the past have not been implemented."

It came as Philip Hammond said the criminal investigation would examine whether building regulations had been breached when the block was overhauled.

Mr Hammond said the public inquiry set up by the Government following the tragedy would also examine if rules had been broken.

David Lammy, the Labour MP for Tottenham who lost his friend Khadija Saye in the fire, has said the "very best senior officers" in the force should undertake the criminal investigation into the blaze.

He has also demanded confirmation that the scope of the police investigation into the tragedy would not be hampered by the public inquiry announced on Friday.

Theresa May admitted last night that the official response to the Grenfell Tower catastrophe “was not good enough”.

In time of crisis humans gather together for hope and solice. If those numbers are correct I hope they found some comfort or at least connection. Bless them all

The floors in Grenfell wernt even numbered after the 5th floor.

That's not true they were numbered why would you say that

weren't

Maybe you should jog on?

Exactly 11122aa & Thatdearoctopus. The thing is they had a budget of £10k for the refurbishment but found a better deal and did it for £8k. If they invested that extra £2k in sprinklers, just think how many more lives would have been saved. Where did that £2k go? Christmas dinners and staff team building days out? Everything is about money these days. Unfortunately, it's more important than the lives of innocent people.

That's not true they were numbered why would you say that

One of the firemen said it in an interview - that they were having to count floor numbers when going up, which made their job even harder.