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In the shadow of Grenfell Tower- thread four

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 17/06/2017 14:02

Rest in Peace

Isaac Shawo, 5 Flowers
Khadija Saye, 24 Flowers
Mohammed Alhalaji, 23 Flowers

At least thirty people confirmed to have died Flowers

Six further deceased victims provisionally identified Flowers

Many more people feared to have died. They have yet to be reunited with their names Flowers

Nineteen people still in hospital, with ten in critical care Flowers

Many people homeless and dispossessed Flowers

Many bereaved Flowers

Many traumatised Flowers

“…it is difficult to escape a very sombre national mood.” The Queen.

Three investigations launched- Fire, Police and Public Inquiry
£5m Government Emergency Fund created
£3m donated by public
Peaceful protesters demand justice and answers.

Thread three (includes links to threads one and two)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Justaboy · 19/06/2017 00:25

FFS its now well known that this Polyethylene plastic cladding is a fire accelerant, why the fuck don't they start tearing the crap off buildings with this lethal stuff on now, right away.

What is needed is some direct action by residents. If i lived in one of these death traps I'd be doing it myself and fuck the authorities its not bloody rocket science!

Becca19962014 · 19/06/2017 00:26

The kctmo who were in charge of the refurb and still have their grenfell minutes on their website say the floors had yet to be renumbered and it was the same for the flats because the couldn't decide how many there were .

There are inconsistent reports of floor numbers in many reports, it wasn't until I read those minutes I understood why that was - simply they didn't know where the flats began.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 19/06/2017 00:27

Count floor numbers doesn't mean flats weren't numbered. How would they get post? Plus relatives have posted flat numbers

GhostPower · 19/06/2017 00:27

They should also be installing sprinklers in all tower blocks. It's such a crime they were not required.

Justaboy · 19/06/2017 00:28

I do not believe that there were 42 people in a 20 square metre room. That just does not make any logical sense.

Do you think considering the conditions those people faced being gassed and cremated there would be any logical sense int their actions?.

Becca19962014 · 19/06/2017 00:28

Because there were admin offices, a gym and a nursery on lower floors. The refurb meant some flats were added on lower floors where there had been none before.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 19/06/2017 00:29

Also smoke would mean they had to count floors.

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 00:29

no numbers on the walls after floor 5.

Firefighters blog post mentioning it is here. A heartbreaking read and im in awe of what they do.

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/a-firefighter-who-attended-grenfell.html?spref=tw&m=1

LordTrash · 19/06/2017 00:32

Re: the 42 bodies in one flat - I saw an interview with a survivor in which he stated that many of the people on his floor had been sent by fire crew to his flat as the safest for the time being.

He subsequently escaped with his family, but others of those who had been directed to his flat had not followed and were now either missing (the lady Zainab with the little boy) or dead (the Syrian student Mohammed). Could that not be the case here?

IvorHughJarrs · 19/06/2017 00:34

Statistically Thank you for your explanation of why occupants may differ from those recorded on tenancies. I had not understood that before

I do, however, remain shocked that it seems to be accepted that there could be high levels of subletting, illegal migrants, etc. in an area where social housing is in such short supply and many on the waiting lists. One of the tv broadcasts had hinted earlier that many tenants may "live on the fringes of society" so be hard to pin down and I hadn't realised till now what some of those reasons might be.

Quodlibet · 19/06/2017 00:36

Reading between the lines of the latest police statements and appeals for any info re anyone living in Grenfell, I think that very sadly there are likely to be a lot of bodies and very little way of identifying them.

It's possible that the block had a reasonably fluid population - as well as people who had been there years, like most parts of London there would likely be a lot of sublet and over-populated flats, so quite probably many people without tenancy agreements or on any official records. And whose friends and family might not know where they had ended up and that they were in the building. I am lying awake at night thinking of those poor people.

To compound the issue, one of the survivors videos I saw talked about how firefighters put lots of people into his flat temporarily, I presume to get them out of the way of another immediate danger while they planned a rescue. This man made his escape but didn't think many others who had been put in his flat did. So there may well be people who died in parts of the building they didn't live in, making identification even more challenging.

I am trying to think of reasons why the fatality figures are so vague that isn't about them being suppressed for political reasons. It's all so horrendous. I feel dreadful for speculating about it, but the lack of information is leading people to try desperately to make sense of it all.

GhostPower · 19/06/2017 00:37

Lordtrash I saw this interview too. It could very well be.

FerretChewToy · 19/06/2017 00:41

This is a was written by one of the firefighters, who was there that night. It's being shared by a number of Police & Fire Brigade accounts on F/B.

In it mentions the lack of floor numbers, & the difficulties getting up to the top, & the awful choices they were faced with that night. They were sent to the 23rd floor, but didn't make it.

It's long, harrowing but worth reading.

GRENFELL TOWER ACCOUNT

As always we were woken with a start, the lights came on and the automated tannoy voice started shouting our call signs. It never fails to set your heat racing. Getting dressed I looked at the clock, I'd only lay down less than a hour ago. Time to see what we've got this time..
Down the pole to the trucks and it's here I'm handed the call slip make pumps 25... what! No..
That's a big incident.
Wait.... I don't know where this is.. it's not on our ground.
We have to look it up and then we're out the doors.

We arrived about 0120hrs but due to the way cars are parked in the streets and the fire engines that are arriving with us we couldn't get closer than 4-5 streets away from the building. Other trucks were closer they would be setting up water ready for us.

We could see this was a bad one immediately. The sky was glowing. Leaving our truck we started quickly towards it. Picking up pace we are carrying our BA sets on our back, while making our way we are trying to read the conditions in front of us, trying to take in as much information as we could. How big is the tower, where is the fire, where is the fire going next, how's it behaving, how many flats are internally affected, how many people are in there?

We mustered outside the entrance. Parts of the building we already starting to fall down on to the surrounding area.
As we entered the building the fire on the outside was raging from the top to the bottom.
Walking up to the bridgehead on the 3rd floor we were told to look at a floor plan that had been hastily drawn on a wall.
We stood looking at it waiting at entry control to be given instructions my BA partner and I (a new mother herself) stood waiting with other firefighters waiting to see what information there was available. Then we received our brief... 23rd floor people stuck in their flat go!
23rd floor? I repeat back.. giving the flat number I received to the Watch manager.
She confirms. I turned at told my BA as the reality of how high we are going to try and go on a single cylinder of air.

Weighed down carrying 30kg+ of equipment not including our firekit and breathing apparatus (BA) we passed through entry control handing in our tallies and confirming our brief.
We made our way up a crowed stairwell struggling to make progress, at times unable to pass because of the amount of people on the stairs. The stairwells were full of other BA crews bringing people down all in various states and conditions.

The smoke grew thicker with each floor we went up. No proper floor numbers on the stairwells after about the 5th floor made it hard to know where you were. Someone before us had tried to write them on the wall with chinagraph pencil but this didn't last long. The dirty smoke was covering the walls with a film of blackness

Around the 9th floor we lost all visibility and the heat was rising. Still we continued up and up through the blackness. We reached what we believed to be the 19/20th floor but there was no way to tell. It was here where we found a couple trying to find their way out, panicking, choking, blinded by the thick toxic air.

A quick gauge check showed us that the amount of floors we'd climbed had taken its toll, we were getting low on air. There's no way we could make it to the 23rd and back to the bridgehead.

The couple were shouting and screaming at us through the coughing, trying to tell us there were 5 more people on the floor above!

Now I had horrible decisions to make and a very short amount of time to make them.

In what I think would of been less than a minute these are all the things I had going through my head.
I will list a few of them for you.
All of which I needed to consider before making my decision:........

•Now that we've stopped and lost our rhythm on the stairs would we have enough air to leave this couple and try to reach the next floor?

•Was the information we are getting from these people was correct. After all they are frantically panicking as they choke and suffer from the heat.

•If we let them carry on down the stairs alone would they or could they find their own way out?

•If we went up another floor would we actually find the 5?

•If we found them what state would they be in? Could the two of us get that many out especially one or more are unconscious?

•How would we decided who to take?

•Do we have enough air to make it back down to safety ourselves from where we are?

•Should I be considering asking my BA partner a "new mother" to risk even more than she already has...?

•Can I accept/live with the thought that saving two lives is better than taking the risk to go up and potentially saving no one?

Ahh!! Come on think...!
Am I doing enough?
Can I give more?
Am I forgetting any of my training....?

Stop....

Breath.....

Think.....

•Why haven't we seen another crew for so long?

•Will another crew find them?

•Are we really where we think we are?

•The radios are playing up... have we missed a important message.

•Have all crews been pulled out?

•Is the structure still safe?

Come on make a decision... and make it quick these people are choking.......

Ok Ok Ok!
Dam!
Come on!! Think!!
Right... ok
Decision made!

I do a double check... ask my partner...
Is it the right decision..?
Ahhh
I'm doubting myself,
Ahhh! there's no time for this!
Come on get on with it...

Right! Make the call!

I try to radio down to entry control.

"Alpha Control Priority!"......
No response....

"Alpha Control Priority!"
Still No response....

Where are they... what's going on?!?

"Alpha Control Priority!"
.....................
.....................

Did they answer... it's hard to tell.. the signal is all broken I think I can just about hear something.

"Alpha Control Priority!"

Alpha control responds...
"Go a head with priority over"

Are they talking to me I can't hear my call sign...

Pass the message

Alpha control.. Two casualties found approx 20th floor, crew now escorting them down, request another BA team be committed to reach flat on 23rd floor. Further traffic....
5 casualties are reported apparently trying to make their way out on the floor above. Over

Alpha control "Message received"

Were they talking to me it broke up again...

Ok we really need to get out.
Let's go!
Grab my arm.

Taking a casualty each we set off. Within two floors both of us had been pushed down one of the flight of the stairs by our casualties. They are screaming at us that they couldn't breath.
We try to reassure them.
Stay with me!!
We are going to get you out!!.
Please stay with me!

Down and down we go... I hear a shout from behind me from my partner, the female casualty has become unconscious. My partner is now having to drag her down alone. I can't help at this time.

Two floors later we find another crew making their way out. One of them is carrying a little girl. I hand off my casualty to the firefighter who has a free set of hands, please take him out I shout, we'll be right behind you.
I turn to go but with that he hands me something I'd not seen initially.
Wait!
What!
Im handed a firefighters helmet!
This can't be good!!
Why does he have this?
Where is the firefighter it belongs too!

As I turn round and go back up one turn of the stairs I see him.
He's missing his helmet but he's with my BA partner.
He's got no helmet and no breathing apparatus.
Are you ok? Where's your BA set!?

He's given it to a casualty.. he's coughing as he tells us, he's delirious from the heat and smoke.

Still he tries to help carry the casualty! Helping others is still his first thought.

I shout at him.. Get down those stairs, get down to the bridgehead!
I take the casualties arms my BA partner has her legs.
We start down again.. round and round we go, hear the noise of crews working hard around us. There are still crews going up the stairs past us.

My BA pre alarm starts going this off.... this means one thing.. my air is running low.. similar noises are all around me.

Turning a corner we see a white helmet, it's a watch manager in the stairwell we've reach the bridgehead.
It's moved again. It's now up on the 5th floor.

My partner takes the firefighter with no BA in to the 5th floor lobby to administer Oxygen.
The watch manager takes the casualties legs from her.
Walking backwards down another 5 floors and finally I'm on the ground floor but I can't stop yet. I hand the casualty over. Then I'm off back up those stairs to the 5th floor.
Reaching entry control, now finally I can shut my set down and I take my mask off. Hoping for a deep breath of clean air...
ah nope!!
It's not clean air in here, I suck in lung full of light ish smoke. It makes me cough and retch.
Still It's clean enough to breath I guess. It's better than the air higher up.

With my tally collected I find my BA partner. She's with the firefighter we found and she's administering him Oxygen. We're off. We take him down and out with us.

As we get outside we are desperate for a drink of water, collapsing on the grass by the leisure centre. Someone see us and throws us some water I drink it straight down, its gone so fast it barely touches the thirst I have.
As I look up colleagues are all around us, tunics off their t-shirts soaked through with sweat, no one really able to talk.

All of us sat there looking at the building we've just come out of. It's worse now! The fire is everywhere and fierce!
It's hard to comprehend we were just in there.

We see a man in a high window trapped in his flat, we can hear the radio traffic. They know he's there but no one can get to him... but crews are working hard trying to help him.
He's there for a long time disappearing then coming back.

Slowly we catch our breath, we service our BA sets new oxygen cylinders on them we are ready to go again.

Recovering I go to find more water. At a cordon a woman pleads with me... crying and pushing her phone at me she says she has her friend on line.
Her and her baby are trapped on the 11th floor.
It throws me... I struggle to reply.. I look across at a police officer I point at him and tell her he will take her to the people who will take her friends information and pass it on to the crews inside.
Stay on the phone with her I say!
Tell her not to give up!
We are still coming.
We are still getting to people I promise.

No time to stop, don't get distracted. I've got to get a drink and get back to it.

Time passes quickly, some people are given jobs while others have to wait to be tasked with going back inside.

Some time later I couldn't say how long we are all grouped together waiting for news. A senior officer is telling us he knows we've already broken all the policy's we have. He knows the risks we've taken but thats not enough we are going to have to take more! There are still a lot more people who need us.
He says he's going ask us to do things that would normally be unimaginable. To put our lives at risk even more than we already have.
Everyone is looking round at each other listening to this officer try to motivate us into action again. He didn't need to though
we are ready for it! This is what we train for.
Those colleagues who a little while ago were collapsed and broken from on the grass from their first entry are back up, ready, stood in full kit waiting for their orders to go in again.

Now lots of things happened during the time I was outside. Some people were rescued alive, some unfortunately weren't. People jumped, a mother threw a baby from a floor high up, caught by a complete stranger arms just so she could get it away from the fire.

All this time hour after hour my colleagues were pushing themselves above and beyond what you'd think was humanly possible.

As the light broke and time passed we knew it had gone to make pumps 40, and that 20 relief trucks were ordered. So as the trucks with fresh crews arrived those of us that were there early on were starting to be swapped over. We were told to find our crews and go to the debrief but no one was wanting to leave each and every one willing to give more, but eventually we all had to leave the scene.

So 19 hours after starting our night shift the members of Red Watch made it back to the Fire Station.

Time to try and rest.. in 4 hours time we will be on duty again.

We hand over the appliance to the Blue Watch. Tell them what equipment we known to be missing.

I swapped out my dirty fire gear so I'm ready for 8pm, I might as well do it while I'm still covered in sweat and dirt.

I shower, but the smell of smoke won't go away. I wash three times and give up.

I'm beyond tired but I cant sleep.. there's to much going on in my head.

I think I need a drink!

I go out to the local pub with colleagues. I order a shandy, I'm back on duty soon.
As we sat with our drinks we don't really talk. Sitting in almost complete silence, each lost in thought trying to begin to process everything that's happened. Yet we are aware of the people all around us laughing and joking with friends, enjoying their drinks in the sun. Oblivious to what we've seen, unaware of what we've been doing all night.

I've no appetite but I know I need to eat. We go to and get some food but it's hard to concentrate.

We go back to the fire station, there's no time to get home. I find a bed in the dorm room and eventually manage 45 min sleep before I wake up. Wash my face, get dressed and I'm ready to report for roll call, ready to do it all again.

---

Now... this is only a small part of the things we saw and did on that night. Other stories will obviously come out but some won't. Some will be kept by firefighters and the other emergency services hidden away deep down in their thoughts, never to pass in to words, never to be told to a living soul but always there, those emotional scars will forever be there.

Justaboy · 19/06/2017 00:45

HelenaDove That blog just as it is ought to be in ALL the main national papers this week.

But of course it won't be mores the pity:-(

GhostPower · 19/06/2017 00:58

That's pretty intense. Imagine having to be in his shoes.

HelenaDove · 19/06/2017 01:05

YY As well as putting their own lives on the line they have milliseconds to make decisions as explained in that blog. They gave everything they had that night. As they always do

NameThatPrune · 19/06/2017 01:09

That firefighter's blog post. It's unimaginable to so many of us. Thank you fire services for your professionalism and bravery and the many sacrifices you make to keep us all safe. As a voter, mindful of public services every time I vote, I'm sorry that you don't yet get the proper support you should.Flowers

This blog shows yet another reason (if any were needed) why disasters and their response are always political and that anyone who tells other people to 'stop making it political' in response to these kind of situations should be given no further attention.

toopeoply · 19/06/2017 02:36

I'm a firefighter. Been to many jobs but to arrive at that scene is beyond all our training and policy. There's so much that goes into fighting fire and rescuing casualties, it's not just a case of chucking water at it. If you do you'd likely boil the casualties and severely burn any firefighters inside despite their protective clothing. Technically we wouldn't really go above the fire floor without extinguishing it first.

But the mantra is that we risk our lives to save yours.

It's unbelievably tough, the weight of the gear, breathing apparatus, tools. You are boiling hot and sweating before you are committed to the fire. And I'm fairly young and pretty fit. The kit can be 2/3rds of my body weight. Then to be told to climb countless floors. Our cylinders have a maximum duration time, reduced by heavy breathing, ie hard work. To get from the 4th floor to the top and back again without becoming a casualty yourself would have been impossible. As well as hundreds of people stopping you on the stairs for help. We'd have to help those casualties first and then radio back saying we hadn't completed our brief, and then we'd have to go up again. High flats jobs are a firefighters worst nightmare. The dry risers are often blocked or faulty. Fire doors open. Difficult layouts, ie odd-numbered on one half of the building, evens on the other.

It's standard for the 999 operator to stay on the phone with each callers from within the fire. It helps us figure out where the live casualties are, in zero visibility. We are trained to count casualties if they are obviously dead, but not to touch or move them. Each firefighter will have recorded that information and we submit statements.

Locating bodies will be incredibly difficult. People would have hid in cubboards, under beds, put children in drawers, they can be anywhere. In fighting fire and the aftermath we rip down most of the internal/stud walls to prevent hidden fire spread, hotspots.
The stay put policy is normally sound, but the speed of the fire on the cladding was unprecedented. It was almost an impossible task. But, you do the job, go home to your family then go back and do it all again. If anyone has any questions I'd do my best to answer them.

RhythmAndStealth · 19/06/2017 02:53

No questions toopeoply, just thank you to you and your colleagues from the bottom of my heart for your unbelievable work and commitment.

Flowers
OP posts:
toopeoply · 19/06/2017 03:12

Thank you rhythm. I would have it any other way. It can be brutal but very rewarding too.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 19/06/2017 07:08

Wellthis

Remember that this incident was a Swiss cheese and all the holes lined up

Most tower Block fires are self contained and put out very fast . Really I mean that there have been so many like this and no major damage

This was a horrific incident but many awful unlucky factors led to it being so incredibly awful

RhythmAndStealth · 19/06/2017 07:09

Piers Morgan is slaughtering Michael Gove on GMB just now.

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 19/06/2017 07:13

But Michael Gove is Rupert Murdoch's choice for PM!

Who else can take over as PM next week with the approval of the Stun?

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 19/06/2017 07:19

Too You and your colleagues derserve our never ending love respect and support. Thank you Star

Frouby · 19/06/2017 07:21

Christ that account from the firefighter is harrowing. I read to the part where there is a woman and baby on the phone to her friend then had to stop.

My only hope is that this is the end of austerity and persecution of the poor. That the tories negotiate the shitstorm of brexit and then we have another GE. And that people vote for whats right for the most vulnerable and most desperate in society not the bankers and big businesses and personal tax advantages. That they vote for the many and not the few as JC is campaigning for.

And I think we are in for some bad news today re the death toll. I hope I am wrong.