CROWDS going into KENSINGTON TOWN HALL ..... BBC NEWS now

[RTKangaMummy]

They were outside but now the crowds have all entered the civic centre town hall

I am not surprised that this is happening

The council paid out £10m last year to refurbish the block. We can only assume they did it in good faith, and that the methods and materials used met standards current at that time

Yeah, the problem with that is those people know that they complained and their fears were ignored over the safety of the work being done.

They predicted correctly that they were living in a death trap.

They are calm measured posts compared to those who seem hellbent on willing this to turn into a riot

Agreed - BUT it is easy to give a measured and calm viewpoint when you're not at ground level. Bereaved, confused and desperate.

I live somewhere that suffered riots. I can't think of anything worse right now than this tragedy developing into riots but somebody needs to LISTEN to people to try and avoid it. And that doesn't matter whether it is 4.55 on a Friday or whatever.

And Robert Atkins currently telling people to "get a grip" is an ocean-going twat

"The council paid out £10m last year to refurbish the block. We can only assume they did it in good faith, and that the methods and materials used met standards current at that time."

This is exactly the sort of attitude that is so dangerous. Why should we assume that the standards - if legal - were good enough? Laws are made by people, people make mistakes, people are prone to be selfish and lazy, people have to be held to account. Something went wrong, this time, very wrong. This means that the work that was done on this building was not good enough by any reasonable standard, whether legal or not.

"It appears no one had any idea the place would go up like that."

Wrong. Inhabitants of the tower very vocally conscious of the fire risk.

I am absolutely staggered by some of the posts on this thread. The complacency, the pomposity, the arrogance - the stupidity. The trust in those who can't be trusted. The lack of analysis or understanding.

This wasn't an act of god. This isn't "one of those things". And the local people know that.

5 to 5 was when the statement was read out by the council.

If you were in the situation of not knowing anything, it's Friday, you know the council aren't going to be working over the weekend, you are not just going to sit and twiddle your thumbs over the weekend.

You are going to want answers for the here and now. That the council are doing things. That you can go any buy tampax. A bath/shower. A space of your own to grief for the family and friends you have lost.

I know High I'm watching the news with my head in my hands. I hope this doesn't result in violence but I can totally see how unfair this situation is and why people are angry.

If this is true, who can blame them

So tell me, why was it that this happened in a council tower and not in a nice fancy private one where the rents are £2k a month?

I still don't get why this whole "poor powerless council tenants" thing. A quarter of the estate privately owned? Quarter of a million pounds for a two bedroom flat? owner occupiers?

What WAS the rent in the fancy private grenfell flats? I don't know, and suspect you don't either.

It may well have been 2k.

It worries me that all this anger and investigation and searching for answers is being whipped up on behalf of "poor people" and might well vanish into the ether if and when some of the dead are revealed to be rich. As if it was something to be ashamed of. As if they are the wrong type of victim for sympathy and justice.

Still struggling to understand how posters on here expect the Council to conjure answers out of a hat when they haven't even begun to look at the questions yet....

There are no answers yet. Impossible to give answers. The number of people registered as living in a block does not equal the number of people present in a block at any given time. If the Council gave out wrong information, or incomplete information, they'd be condenmed for that too.

I think it's been incredibly patronising to think that people who have experienced an appalling fire, some of whom slept in their car or found their way to a bed in a church hall, who have had no outreach or contact from their council, who are now told they may be rehoused in another area, that these people are angry because they've been 'whipped up by the media'. That is just so patronising and lacking in any perception about how people feel when they've come close to death, and their lives have been smashed.

The report on fire safety in tower blocks had been sat on a Minister's desk for FOUR YEARS.
The material used as cladding would not be allowed on a tower block in many other countries.

I hope there is no riot, that won't help anyone. But angry, right now that seems like a human response to this appalling tragedy.

I feel so deeply for these poor people and can understand their anger. It just seems such a mess (understatement) .

My fear is that the rent a mob type people who are not even affected by this will get involved and make things worse. I know lots of people who aren't directly affected feel angry too and rightly so but there is a minority of people who would enjoy a riot

I get they are angry and want answers, I really do. But they are not doing themselves any favours. What Councillor in their right mind would step out of their building and talk to a crowd baying for their blood?

If the government really are suppressing the death toll numbers it will be to manipulate people into not demonstrating.

Suddenly you realise you live in North Korea where the government wants to make damn sure that an inquest/government enquiry will last DECADES

Like HILLSBOROUGH.

It's also come out today that the material had been banned in America on buildings over 40ft for safety reasons.
The panels are also rated Flammable in Germany.

@Dawndonnaagain it's categorically not true.
It's almost certain that the numbers will be very high but its painstaking work with our amazing firemen risking their lives in a dangerous building doing fingertip searches to recover the bodies and identify them.

DawnDonnaAgain - I don't want it to be true. The death toll nor the D-Notice

That DS notice report is horrific.

I hope to God it's false.

My fear is that the rent a mob type people who are not even affected by this will get involved and make things worse. I know lots of people who aren't directly affected feel angry too and rightly so but there is a minority of people who would enjoy a riot

This ^^

All the luvvie pop stars hanging around will take them in.

That may be unfair, perhaps they have already.

The D notice is false.
www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/no-there-isnt-a-d-notice-banning-the-media-from-reporting?utm_term=.yxyaEKmb9#.qhPGZm8K2

dancing
Turn on BBC news.
The people at the town hall aren't the victims of the fire.

It is rent-a-mob. They are carrying Socialist Workers Party placards which have been especially printed for this. A significant number of them are concealing their faces with scarfs while filming fights breaking out on their phones.

These are people who have been whipped up and are 'demanding answers' which are simply not available until an investigation has been carried out, and I would wager, a certain minority just looking for an excuse for a fight

If this turns into a riot, it will completely undermine the legitimate case of the legitimate victims who will get labeled as council thugs by the right wing press.

"As if it was something to be ashamed of. As if they are the wrong type of victim for sympathy and justice."

Not sure whether to laugh at your insolence or swear. You are deluded 444. Just signed up with MN mhm?

DancingLedge... I don't see where anybody has said that about the people are actually affected, the ones who lost their homes. They are not a mob and they are deserving of - and are getting help from various sources.

It's the ones who want to put stupid links up, post untrue 'facts' and generally 'get involved'. It's because everything has to be about them and their 'right' to be heard because they're upset. Well so is everybody else but very few (thankfully) want to risk massive civil unrest. How does that ever help anybody?

And that is the type of person who rallies and joins a 'mob'.

"The people at the town hall aren't the victims of the fire.

It is rent-a-mob."

Are you saying the victims should hobble out of hospital so that this protest is seen as genuine and people's voice heard?

I don't blame them at all.