CROWDS going into KENSINGTON TOWN HALL ..... BBC NEWS now

[RTKangaMummy]

They were outside but now the crowds have all entered the civic centre town hall

I am not surprised that this is happening

I can't even comprehend the sheer terror those people faced. How can the people involved, the people who lived there bear it?

So yes i absolutely do think they should protest and scream and shout about the injustice of it.

I wonder what caused the fire in the first place ? If it's one of those Beko appliances then that's another organisation that needs to be held accountable.

I think that the 'media frenzy' is just journalists allowed a little bit closer than the wider public, who feel the whole disaster.

I can't imagine being even within sight of a building full of people burning down like that. Journalists are still people, if your scope of the century is that much suffering then maybe they do encourage anger at the sheer futility at the loss of life on such a huge scale.

That amount of pain should make people angry.

The people from the Grenfell area have every damned right to be fuming and to march. What bothers me though is there are actually rent-a-mobbers joining in, little fuckers who'll whip up angry and devastated people up and then scuttle away leaving everyone else in the shit. Look at all the SWP signs, the specifically anti-Tory placards, as opposed to general ones that may well be anti-Tory but are related to the disaster iyswim, and the pro-Corbyn banners. What have they got to do with the horrendous events? There's an agenda and it isn't one that cares about the people.

Where's the local MP? They should be there leading and coordinating the aid efforts. Right now there's nothing.

Calling the victims families a 'mob'?
Actually defending the people who allowed this disaster to happen so as not to ruffle feathers or make a fuss?

These people were murdered by greed, arrogance and tory cuts.

Does it feel better to remain blinkered?

Try to goddamn deny this for christ's sake - what on earth redeems these repulsive automatons in the eyes of so many? Can anyone truly see the cruel results of the past 7 yrs and feel fine about that?
There are people who died as a direct result of Iain Duncan Smith and his gleeful destruction of disabled people's lives. Still uninvestigated and probably the dirty scrounger's fault anyway.
Perhaps the bedroom tax wasn't enough.

Perhaps you won't miss the NHS or the police or the fire service? Or perhaps it is just a fucking left wing myth that any of this could ever possibly happen!

Aaaw, but the economy is so safe with the tories! We are in deeper fucking debt than ever - where did the austerity money go, eh?

I am well and truly fucking ashamed to be a member of mumsnet, not to mention being British.

I can't submerge myself in this shit any longer, time to locate a more empathetic crowd I guess. Cheerio.

This is no minimising this.
We are fucking finished if we try to minimise this.
These people need answers

Something broke on Wednesday in this country. We lost more than souls
in the fire.

Totally agree BadRabbit

Where's the local MP?

She (Emma Dent Coad) has been there a few times. She also campaigned on behalf of the poorer residents of Kensington during her time as a Labour councillor and had voiced concerns several times about social housing and about Kensington's spending choices.

I think the SWP always turn up to agitate at stuff like this and may fan some flames but at least they care about the social issues. Can't see any other 'political 'organisations there helping out. If this had been a terrorist related event, the EDL would be there baying for blood. There were some pretty unsavoury scenes before and after the murder of Jo Cox stoked by such people.

And,as for the journalist, many residents want them there - without journalists with cameras and microphones, how would the locals have their voices heard? I think, to be fair, we have seen astonishing empathy from some journalists who have been visibly moved.

I do get really frustrated by the SWP. What they tend to do is turn up to demos with huge numbers of generally appropriately themed placards for everyone to help themselves to. Most protestors turn up empty handed, see the placards and pick one up. They either don't realise the implications, or don't care about them of what they are doing by holding a SWP placard. They just want something to hold that gets their feelings across.

It makes the SWP look a lot more prevalent at protests than they really are, when actually they are a pretty small number of people efficient at creating large amounts of advertising for themselves.

I will just leave this here:

Hmmm... yes.

'health and safety' is often said with the same off hand dismissiveness as 'political correctness'

It's a disgrace.

A lot of the work councils do prevent tragedies from happening. Environmental Health, civil engineering checks, youth workers, Sure Start centers -these people stop awful things occurring. When they are working well you shouldn't notice them.

So the public want 'cuts' because what does the council actually do? Let's cut funding and save money. They are just pen pushing bureaucrats who needs them?

Society needs local councils to stay safe, eat clean food, drive on safe roads, inspect old peoples homes etc. When we cut them we risk lives. If you voted for austerity cuts, you voted for this. Harsh but true.

I've just seen another post on FB offering beds for 300 survivors. Including nappies etc
The problem is there are not 300 survivors to fill these beds, let alone all the other beds offered.
These lives were sacrificed for the sake of making their home look more palatable to on lookers. The sort , 'they' really want in London.
People saying the crowds at the council halls aren't the "real" victims and have no place to be there are ridiculous in the extreme. This has affected the whole community. Anyone who is currently housed in a similar block has every right to protest now, if you can not see that you are the problem, not them.
Yes a large number are young men/bmae not because they are jumping on a cause but because this is their cause. Their families, their communities, their lives.

Also, people criticizing the media, have a think. The days of a WASP behind the desk are long gone. The media have to try and keep up with the wealth of reports from people on the ground living and sharing their experiences via social media. They no longer hold the authority to dictate how these incidents are reported.

You might not like it, so shame on you.

People saying the crowds at the council halls aren't the "real" victims and have no place to be there are ridiculous in the extreme.

I agree.

If I lived anywhere near (and hadn't been scared of rioting) then I would have gone along. I'm not a victim of this by any stretch of the imagination. But as a concerned citizen, I'm not only appalled that this has happened but appalled at the (lack of) an official response. I thought we'd got past all that in the '80s. I don't give a shit what race, colour or even nationality these people are, there's no excuse for treating a dog like this let alone a human being.

I am appalled, although not shocked, at the early posts saying protestors from minority groups and young males are damaging the 'cause' it just goes to show the extent of the problem.
And others who speak in their behalf are also criticised for not being the real victims.
It's incredible, that after what has happened, people still want to shut them up.

We should all be angry. These are men, women, children. They are part of our society and we should not be allowing this to happen. Not one of us should be allowing it, defending it is defending that which is indefensible.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-stadlen/grenfell-tower-resident-protesters-made-worse/

I stand by my earlier comments that the rent-a-mob didn't help the situation or the victims by turning up to make a political point...

There are always going to be one or two problems, they weren't rent a mob storming the town hall, they were people involved, people who lived in Grenfell Tower and people who live in the area. They were frightened and were not getting the information they needed. Even May has admitted this now. There is still not a co-ordinated help centre.

No Official Help Centre

dawn

They really weren't residents of the tower.

For starters, why were so many of them carrying custom-printed SWP placards if this was a spontaneous outpouring of frustration by residents?

I've got several friends who posted on Facebook that they went along to the protest. One lives in Hackney and one lives in Hanwell.
Yes, they are furious with what's happened but they are hijacking these peoples' misery to make a political point

And now actual victims are saying the actions prevented them getting the help they were trying to get from the council...

spare Some of them were. I have a friend who was there, he's 70 and not inclined to telling fibs. He lives in one of the other blocks and has lived in the area since 1952.

He was a resident of Grenfell tower, or another tower near by?

sparechange, people are allowed to protest this, even if they didn't live in the Tower. The people at the protest who were speaking had lost friends in the fire, they are angry. Rightly so.

You don't get to preach on who gets to protest stuff

shoes

Have you read the link?
Actual victims of the actual fire are complaining that the protest meant they couldn't access the actual help the council were trying to give them because they had to shut the building for security reasons.

Can you explain to me how that protest helped the victims?
Or does the democratic right of randoms trump the victims attempt to get help?

Perhaps the council should have been a bit more forthcoming with help before Friday afternoon, sparechange?

There are volunteers on the scene this morning, filmed by the BBC, still saying there has been no help from the council - no central control. What help are they hidden up in their offices?