Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

The RBKC has been Conservative controlled since 1964. According to Wikipedia, they have 7 councillors to the Tories 40 (I think that's changed a bit but not much).

badbadbunny just to come back to your point about your library. It is a product of a stupid system that the councils have in place for funding. I assume because of central government. If money isn't spent then cuts are made based on the budget minus the unspent money so the council has no incentive to save that money. They can't spend it on day to day running of existing services as it's for capital projects. So the money's spent on a new building but the funding for routine maintenance and staffing isnt there. They can't afford to lose it and they don't get to carry it over. Which leads to pointless projects. Council funding and spending needs an overhaul as it isn't sensible. Just slashing budgets isn't helping.

I don't use Facebook so I'm hoping someone on here will know. Has anyone set up a coordinated campaign to furnish out the new homes (when they get them) for the survivors? They will have lost everything not just the roof over their heads. Most of the occupants properly had little to begin with and I doubt that any had insurance. Is there someone getting on the case with large companies e.g. DFS, Currys, Dreams etc to ask for donations ? or Ikea vouchers?

I'm amazed that there has been no mention anywhere of the Summerland fire on the Isle of Man that happened about 40 years ago, the worst fire in Britain. It was a leisure complex and about 50 people were killed. It was the cladding that was responsible for the spread along with others issues, it is hard to believe that 40 yrs on the same issues are still arising.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if the realistic number of fatalities is more closer to 300. Seriously.

Look at the size of that building- where are all of the survivors? the walking wounded? We have seen very few.

brexit I thpught I heard that they're hoping it wont reach 3 figures i.e. 100 dead but the fact that's a 'hope' rather than an expectation must tell you that nobody is confident it will be less than 100 :(

Oh the mner is on now I think!! (Lost flat in the London riots)

300? No please god no.

I thought lily Allen was over dramatic with her 150.

The number of people missing and that are being looked for is no where bear the double figures mentioned here. Unless that is being surpressed?

The first time I saw this I thought horrific, but just assumed that it spread slowly and there would be no loss of life. I couldn't if judged it more wrong

I hear that environmental concerns are being blamed for the cladding.

As mentioned upthread the reason for the cladding is semi-irrelevant. Whatever reason there is for doing work like this to a building, the work has to be safe and definitely not cause or increase the risk of fire.

However, those living in the flats also have a right to have warm and dry homes. If cladding was dangerous it was dangerous, and so other methods of insulation and damp proofing should have been found. People have the right to be warm, dry AND safe.

The comments about the building housing 'between 400-600 people'

How many in hospital? 78?

How many escaped? (very little by eye-witness accounts)

Taking into account that there is a high possibility that there will have been a fair amount of people in those flats who probably were not registered tenants (sofa surfers/multiple occupants due to ridiculous London rental prices)

I do seriously think that the numbers here are massive.

I doubt it's being suppressed as such, it's just thatthey have to be absolutely sure and that will take time. Unspeakably difficult for those waiting for news of loved ones but the authorities can't give a guestimate as it's their job to recover bodies before they can release figures.

The Police are saying they hope it doesn't reach 100 and the press association are saying the missing list is around 70. The Sun has a list of 65 people feared missing which I suspect is the minimum the death toll will reach.
I am surprised a minute's silence hasn't been announced yet by the government.

number of people missing and that are being looked for is no where bear the double figures mentioned here. Unless that is being surpressed?

If a whole family has been wiped out (or indeed an isolated individual) there might not be anyone left to report them missing. No one left to be looking for them.

I'd assume the HA has a list of those who lived in every flat and are hopefully comparing this to lists of those who got out. But anyone who was there as a visitor or any sub-lets wouldn't be listed of course...

Maybe the escaped by eye witness accounts are low as many escaped before they eye witnesses got there and there are possibly multiple exits rather than the front door. Only seeing 5 people a minute exit seems low, but over half an hour that is 150

I doubt we will ever know a true number.

I seen reports of at least 30-40 escaping uninjured. Majority of people from 10th floor down escaped or were rescued and some got down from much higher up.

Yeah. 65 is the just those that people are publicly looking for. There is likely to be a few more that nobody is looking for that were in the building.

If a whole family has been wiped out (or indeed an isolated individual) there might not be anyone left to report them missing. No one left to be looking for them.

But the council must know who is in each flat? The two Syrian boys had no family but they were fully aware of them

brexit but if people are subletting/overcrowding, the council wouldn't necessarily know they are there.

To an extent. Many flats will be sublet out and having extra people staying there who the council doesn't know. Plus some of the flats were owned by landlords
The Syrian Boys were refugees and therefore they were the primary tenants of the flat.

I agree, there seems to be minimising going on.

I also was of the belief that there would be 200 to 300 dead. But understood that at the time they were only reporting confirmed dead. But no media is giving a speculative figure which I would have expected by now. YY the numbers don't add up.

Also no mention about why smoke was flowing freely up the staircases and landing.

Even though as said yesterday that fire stops were temporarily removed and there is a possibility not reinstalled or reinstalled properly, as no inspection had been done since before they were removed.

Question also needs asking is it legal to remove fire stops even temporarily whilst residents are still in situ?

YY to reports of access to the building. It was highlighted on that mornings coverage but has not been mentioned since.

And even the people the council know about, I don't expect they are contributing to the newspaper pictures of the missing or adding their names to the public missing lists.

Bangkok - you seem to be missing my point. I'm not talking about the safety of the tower blocks or whether they are any more / less safe than private developments. I'm talking about the inequality between the rich and poor and how the poor are considered disposable in this country.

And I'm trying to say that legislation should protect poor people (and everyone) so that there is no possibility of contractors cutting corners / unsafe materials used etc.

People shouldn't need a nice social ethos to protect them, it should be enshrined in legislation and enforcement.

You are going to affect real change through a stark review and improvement in legislation around building regulations and enforcement especially around new versus refurb regs.

I want to see building regs and enforcement so god dam tight that any contractor found to not be in compliance has actual serious criminal consequences.

Hand wringing about how no one cares about poor people isn't actually going to improve anything - because companies will always put profit ahead of anything else, they are never going to care about poor people.

You have to make it impossible for contractors to do anything other than safe and good quality of work no matter who the building is for.

thewitch but what good would speculating on numbers do? In my opinion, that only adds to panic. It is better to just report a final figure when it is known.

The Sun is the only paper giving speculative figures- their front page said up to 100 feared dead.

Oh, the queen is there.

So how come the queen can be there, but not Theresa May?????