Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

Sam Webb architect has been writing about these tower blocks.

That well known builder who subcontracts to the cheapest people who don't have a clue what they are doing.

Yes also they are paid on piece work often so there is a massive incentive to do the work quickly cheaply and cut corners.

Private or council, there is something seriously lacking in building regulations in this country.

This this this this this.

It would be a shame if we let the rich v poor sentiment about the 'pretty cladding' overshadow a totally fundamental and structural issue with the entire construction industry.

Originalbigly grenfellactiongroup have been campaigning for years about it and no one listened to them. Yes it is a trend but it was put on the building as at of the refurb whilst important fire safety wasn't. I can't put it in words very well as so angry but it needs to be said. Yes this is about rich and poor. Yes this is political.

I don't know why it's worth pretending it isn't a very strong possibility aesthetics played a large part

It shouldn't matter what the purpose of the cladding was for, aesthetics, thermal insulation,m whatever.

The reason why it was put in SHOULD be totally irrelevant because there SHOULD Be appropriate building regulations and these SHOULD be checked for compliance.

the massive massive massive issue is lack of appropriate building regulations and the massive lack of appropriate monitoring of compliance of what building regs there are.

Agreed Bangkok

Watching Wright Stuff. Stupid blonde woman with a lisp just complained about "making it political" and said " these people were housed. They were given housing. Lots of people can't even get on the list" then she went on to say we should focus on request homing the people who were made homeless.
So.....they should be grateful then? That they got anything?
Fucking hell. But this is how a lot of people think. Look at those spongers with their free houses.

Re homing

It does matter. It matters because it demonstrates exactly what the residents have been saying. The Council and government are more concerned with placating the rich than the safety of social housing tenants.

Of course the material used is relevant too. The cause of the fire and reason for its rapid spread is important but the ever increasing divide between rich and poor is at the heart of some policies. Of course it's relevant.

Bangkok - there can be more than one issue. There will be legal issues, policy issues and morality issues.

When I was doing my risk management exams in the 90s there was a problem with a particular cladding that was polystyrene filled, used as roofing on big industrial developments. People stopped using it and the design was altered after a couple of big fires/loss of business because of the risk profile and the fact that multi million pound businesses couldn't get insurance.

I can't believe that this happened in 2017.

As for the leader of the council claiming that the residents vetoed the installation of a sprinkler system in the refurbishment - he wants shooting - how dare he try to blame the fact that installing sprinklers was a further inconvenience to the residents and therefore they decided not to. I hope he and the decision makers hang.

@kirinm you are misunderstanding my point

If we had adequate building regulations and these were actually checked before being signed off, it would not be possible to put on cladding that had the potential to act like a chimney.

So it wouldn't matter if something was done purely for aesthetic reasons because whatever is put on SHOULD be safe. But it wasn't safe. This is the issue.

You are misguided if you believe that privately built blocks are any safer or built to better standards BTW....

I am totally on board that the HA tenants have been treated appallingly and that their concerns weren't listened too.

But to focus on this issue only means that we might miss the chance to really dig down and investigate exactly how bad the construction industry and building regs scam is, and how many other people are at serious risk.

There's just been a guy, a grime artist? Saskilla? Who did a charity gig last night on BBC news. Anyone see him? He says he's been told by fire that there 200 bodies in there.
It's awful, don't even have the words.

Thankyou Barchester, kirinm, if not.

We've got to speak up. People are still not listening even after this hell.

This is very much a classist issue and a political issue.

And it must be talked about and talked about until something actually gets done.

Laura Perrin according to twitter was on question time blaming the immigrants for this! Jesus wept.

Lawyer on the programme said May wanting a public enquiry is wrong. That is government led. We need an inquest.

This cannot be covered up. Wouldn't be surprised if things start disappearing from the internet.

The people that died, we have to fight for answers for them.

Cannot stop thinking about the horror.

Have I missed the mner on Victoria Derbyshire?

200 bodies?! Please say that isn't true.

I'm watching sky and they have a list of about 12-15 missing people so was assuming the final toll would be 30ish, which is obviously still deviating

BeyondStrongandStable You raise a good point about cavity wall insulation. Some basic foams and polystyrene balls are combustible and give off toxic and noxious fumes. I don't know if this applies to Grenfell tower block.

Posted this elsewhere but should be talked about more:

Jen725 @ jen725
Looking somewhat murky for emma dent coad. If residents want her to go she will have to

Jim Waterson @ jimwaterson
Is this due to her role on the board?

Emma Dent Coad is the new Labour MP for Kensington. This is part of her wiki entry:

Dent Coad was born in Chelsea as the youngest of six in an Anglo-Spanish family, and has lived in North Kensington since 1986. She was elected to Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council in 2006, representing Golborne ward. She is a member of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority and was a council-appointed board member of Kensington and Chelsea TMO from 2008 to 31 October 2012.

She was on the board of the housing association that ran Grenfall tower. This predates the renovation but there certainly complaints that go back years. Whether this is during her period I don't know. This could be a problem though.

I know that local councillors do take on both paid and unpaid roles on housing association bodies - including those that are privatised.

The conflict of interest is dreadful. How can you represent the interest of tenants if you are on the board of the body that tenants have a problem with?

In the case of Emma Dent Coad I have no idea if she was paid for being on the board. I have no idea if she was there at the time residents had made complaints. I have no idea if she stuck up for residents.

My point is more that it opens up some difficult questions that I know should be looked at in my area but people who are aware of it feel powerless to expose it.

I hope this area gets looked at too. It needs to be. It's widespread and part of the bigger picture and problem.

Have they spoken about the jobs that the poor souls did? I imagine they are mostly nurses, teachers and other key workers so the affects for the local community are so far reaching

I've been doing the maths since day 1

78 in hospital
65 rescued by firefighters
7 left the building in an hour and a half said an eye witness

This was a building that held between 400 and 600 people.

If 400 got out that could be 200 that perished and I don't think anywhere near 400 got out.
I think it's going to be 200 at least and I think we will never know the true number.

Saw this on DM comments section
Marc707, manchester, United Kingdom, 13 minutes ago
Heres what the press are keeping quite about. In the early hours of the morning at 1,30 am when I was watching this unfold, the reporters reported that the fire engines could not get access to the building due to road works. I hope this gets put in any report. Not one mention of this in the press

Coad has said she wasn't paid, which I've found out since posting but I stand by there being conflicts of interest with social housing and elected officials:

twitter.com/emmadentcoad/status/875109724555030529
Comment by Emma Coad.

Bangkok - you seem to be missing my point. I'm not talking about the safety of the tower blocks or whether they are any more / less safe than private developments. I'm talking about the inequality between the rich and poor and how the poor are considered disposable in this country.

Dowser 400 exiting the building could have happened as it spread via the outside, I've heard the fire service say that the top 4 floors were the worst affected as by then it had spread to the core.

This is just abysmal why would anyone vote against making homes fit for human habitation?