Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

Yes Helena, I also wonder why these lucrative housing associations are not put under scrutiny? I know for one there are many influential people tied up in them and that is why the kctmo should be fully investigated.

I'm not against housing associations completely and there are some providing a fair and essential service. But there are a number of very wealthy people who got very very rich on the back of taking over the council housing stock that was built for working class people. Makes my blood boil.

Comment from DH.

"that building should be left to stand (after being shored up and made safe) With June 14th 2017 so certain people dont forget and that the inquiry doesnt take years.

Me too tired.
I was sobbing on & off most of yesterday - I'm not involved or anywhere close by, but it's hit me far far more than anything else usually does.
It's the thought of them all knowing what was happening I think, I can't begin to imagine the horror.
And the people who witnessed it too.
And the massive, massive bravery of our firefighters - they are absolute heroes.

The sheer volume of people who are/have been/will be affected by this in so many different ways is enormous, it's heartbreaking.

I agree with the other posters how hard this is affected me, I think it's because whole families have died - and I know that this hasn't been officially confirmed yet, but whole families are missing and as we know in all likelihood they died in the most horrendous way possible. As a parent, and putting myself in those poor people's shoes and the most unimaginable decisions that they had to make, is for me more upsetting than the horrific terror attacks that this country (and others) have been put through.

Good news for me - our domestic lady safe and sound in hospital. Got separated from Hubby who is also ok. Also the son of one of our ex patients came in to check if his mum was on a ward (psychiatric) and we said no but I could confirm she was alright as she had popped in yesterday to check what team she was meant to be seeing. She was all smiley and did not mention she had no home to go back to!

YYglowglow There are some decent HAs out there Usually the smaller ones. But there does need to be more scrutiny . HAs are not properly regulated. When tenants are left without heating /hot water and it hasnt been fixed tenants have to exhaust the HAs complaints procedure before being allowed to involve the ombudsman. It takes too long. An elderly couple could die from hypothermia in the time it takes.

Sadiq Khan answering questions live in West London now.

People asking if they will definately be rehoused locally.

Im glad shes safe Deathray.

So true Helena, I could almost overlook the vast money they make if they were at least competent and serve their tenents properly. But they often, as you've pointed out regard their tenents with contempt and fail to comply with safety regulations.

Helena agree there is a pattern and that complicated structure- Has at arms length from councils exacerbates that. I hope that this pattern can be recognized and changed now. (By the way, the Housing Minister has publically committed to all families being rehoused in the area. Agree that will need to be scrutinized to see if it happens).

Good news DeathRay.

I don;t understand why they keep saying only a few have died- the tower housed hundreds (I read between 400 and 600). Surely hundreds of people have lost their lives? Are they minimising the number of people dead? Am I wrong or is it hundreds of people

The very basic difference was that when the local council was the landlord you could at least ask your councillor to intervene. With the housing association I know of its a Kafkaesque process trying to communicate with them. They just don't want to know.

Yes, thank god the Hillsborough families didn't just "move on" Hoolies.

I really don't think people are going to let this go either.

We put our poor into flammable cladded buildings with no sprinkler systems. I feel so proud.

I think we all know that the death toll is going to be horrific.

LovelyBath they will have been securing the building.There will be a big death toll by the end.

Luckily it seems that many many did escape but the death toll will still in time. So far they have only found 17 bodies but with many of the flats on the upper floors not yet checked.

Exactly Mairead. David Aaronovitch on Newsnight last night said we should be "so ashamed" that this happened.

Lovelybath they won't confirm the number of deaths until they are absolutely sure . It will take a long time because they have to find and identify people .

Trying to catch up after being at work. Is there a definitive 'people missing' number? Do we know definitively the highest floor people got out of?

Priorities for our politicians over the upcoming years are fucking huge and wide now.

Social housing (provision of, upgrading of, management of)
Police, Fire Service, NHS (pay, conditions, extra personnel & upscaled resources)
Armed Forces (personnel & resources)
Education (proper structure, pay, extra teachers & upscaled resources)

And then Brexit too.

A proper, non party-political point scoring, cross-party review and plan of action is desperately needed.

I posted overnight so people probably didn't see my posts.

My family own and operate a non profit HA. Most people don't know it's a non profit. My dad started it after his employees shared with him what was going on. He was purchasing streets of old unfit for habitation homes for £10k from the council. He gutted and renovated them and today they are rent out to people in need of housing.

There is so much corruption in this sector it's unreal. The SOW are poorly documented and failure to comply isn't followed up. As I previously posted, we don't operate any tower blocks. My sister and I told my Dad there was no way we were qualified to manage something like that. We do have multiple unit homes which house the elderly and disabled. Everything is planned out.

There is a huge culture of ticking checklists to prove you have complied with H&S. Not good enough. For our fire safety review I didn't like our original report. Instead I pictured myself in each property and how I would get out and then pictured myself being immobile and trying to get out. It's common sense and logical to ask the local fire department for their input.

Lovelybath I think they simply don't know

Met police commander is on just now, saying they have had over 400 reported missing to the casualty bureau so far but they know it's not that many missing.

Some of those won't have been in the tower in the first place. Others will have got out but have had no means of contacting others. Others will be duplicates - due to inaccurate info, heck even spelling mistakes.

They also won't know for sure how many were even living there; there might be entire families where there's only one or two names on the tenancy, sub letting...I think they're being understandably cautious.

He did say that they think they have identified everyone in the hospitals and they now seem to be asking people to go down to the Westway and speak to detectives or to call again, so I think this is the process of them coming up with a more definitive list of the missing.

I read about a girl who escaped with her revision notes then went and sat her GCSE. My son has been taking his GCSE's so I felt for her. What an amazing girl.

Melbourne Australia three years ago had a tower block with similar claddding that went on fire.
France and Dubai