Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

The response to this will take years, you all know how deflection works surely. That is why I am sceptical, not a pessimist, more a realist

Sadly I have to agree, especially where the Council's role is concerned. IME it's their very lack of accountability which does so much to feed into disasters of this sort, and it's all too likely that the enquiry team will meet with a wall of obstruction from people who know that the "spotlight" is all too transitory

Notreally

Someone else has also linked to Boris Johnson closing fire stations with 500+ jobs gone.

I'm not as concerned about 'in person' meetings. I'd rather TM released funding to secure long term accommodation for all those affected. I wouldn't care to meet the cow. I'd probably lose the rag.

Charm - there was an inquiry after the Southwark fire. It took years and the Tories ignored the results. An inquiry means nothing.

Just leaving this here.

Reports came out in 2009 though; ignored by Labour.

Also - I am unsure the amendment on "fit for habitation" would have made any difference to this tower block - all the photographs I have seen from inside the flats look at though they were well maintained, the flats appear to be well above "fit for habitation". What we need is fire regulations, and an inquest into why fire systems failed - it does look like they had the systems in place - why were they not working / accessible?

Then don't go to meetings, user. Leave them for other people who do want them.

It's absolutely horrific. Those poor people.

I'm so angry and upset. This isn't a nutter or group of radicalised nutters, it's modern Britain. Low cost, unaccountable private enterprise. No one giving a shit about anything unless it directly affects them. We're all at the mercy of this kind of shitstorm.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet so apologies if it has.

There was a report from Inside Housing that said the following:

Safeguards intended to prevent the spread of fire from floor to floor were temporarily removed from Grenfell Tower during a refurbishment, according to documents from the planning application.

The 2016 refurbishment, which took place after the most recent fire risk assessment on the tower, included the installation of a new heating system in the tower. This required the replacement of the pipes in the floors.

To install the new pipes, the ‘fire stopping’ – systems used to seal openings and joints to prevent the spread of fire – had to be partially removed. The intention, according to a sustainability and energy statement authored by engineers from Max Fordham, was to replace the fire stopping once the new pipes had been installed.

It is not clear if they were replaced.

So not only was the cladding clearly flammable, but the fire stopping systems between floors to stop spreading - were temporarily removed, and uncertain if they were replaced. Given how the fire spread, you would think they weren't replaced.

Fit for habitation refers to a premise satisfying the basic requirement of being safe and healthy enough to live in.

This was not safe. So fit for habitation, would have covered this, in my opinion.

Coral - the fire was in 2009.

Thanks glue.

A report came out in 2009 too; it was originally given to the Labour government, who shelved it.

Do you have a link to that report?

Trying to find it now; I saw it yesterday but google is now coming up with the 2016 vote yesterday for several pages (rightly so).

"Corbin managed it though?"

yes because he genuinely gives a shit and is a people's man. Theresa May not so much.

The inquest was in 2013 so I struggle to see how a report was produced in 2009.

The 2009 report hasn't been published, that's the point. The then Labour Government, the Coalition and the current Government have all sat on it.

I'm starting to feel that the government are taking steps to minimise what cannot be any wore for them by encouraging an informed update on the likely number of deaths. They know how many people (approx.) who lived there. They know how many are in hospital and probably those who got out. They know how man are missing. Those still missing are sadly almost certainly dead, so lets ask them to stop this pussyfooting about with 17 deaths and almost certainly more and have some realistic estimate of numbers who have perished. But no they won't do this because it suits their purpose to keep this as low key as possible until after all the post election deals have been done. Shameful.

Here glue

m.insidehousing.co.uk/7020464.article?mobilesite=enabled

kirinm Here it is - this isn't what i read yesterday, but you can see that the report advises government to make changes; I'll keep looking for yesterday's website - it actually had the entire failings from all governments and I thought it was quite a good (balanced) input it how badly things have gone wrong.

www.ifsecglobal.com/interim-report-into-lakanal-house-tower-block-fire-published/

2009 Report: <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120919132719/www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/1307046.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120919132719/www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/1307046.pdf

The women next door also got some clothes from her flat before she left the flat.

Can anyone read the link I posted?

When I look now it asks me to register.

I saw this programme and the descriptions of how the judge steered the inquiry, and how White Star moved to get the witnesses out of the way. I'd like to think that in the days of the internet it would be a bit harder to do this.