Grenfell Tower

[RhythmAndStealth]

Watching the news just now and I can't believe my eyes. It looks absolutely horrific.

I want to think everyone got out safe, but sadly I just can't.

Some of the news reports are about alleged poor safety standards and dangerous living conditions. If that's true it just beggars belief.

I think ultimately humanity is good and you can see it in times of tragedy, people coming together and helping each other.

I also think the firefighters are amazing, it's an hard job which many of us could never do.

Changedenomnom Your posts are incredibly tasteless, in addition to containing simply incorrect information/opinions.

Using this thread as an opportunity to express sympathy for your "ex colleagues" who you state have done "a good job" is insensitive in the extreme. I am sure I am not the only one who thinks you have some agenda here and it's pretty blatant from your posts, tbh.

I have no intention of entering into any discussion with you other to say I sincerely doubt you are an ex-employee of this company, and this is neither the time or the place for you to attempt to push whatever agenda you are pushing.

For those wondering about monetary donations there is a link to this

www.thekandcfoundation.com/

This is from the council website. You can earmark the donation to go to the Grenfell appeal.

Several posters have talked about burns injuries.. on the news earlier they said that all the injured in hospital are suffering from smoke inhalation, none from burns.

Later on the BBC London news a fire expert had a lump of polyurethane, which is apparently the (cheap) material that the cladding contained, and it went up like a torch. I also read in the Independent that part of the reason for the cladding was to provide a more attractive view for the new luxury flats nearby.

Floofycat you are enourmously overestimating the importance of mumsnet. As if anyone currently connected to the company would take the time to be on this thread today.

As if they would care what mumsnet think- it's not important to anyone else is it? What would be the motivation?

I'm a regular posting giving an alternative view and just because you don't want to hear it it doesn't mean it's wrong.

And yes, I feel for my ex colleagues. I have said that EXACTLY ONCE in many posts. It's hardly an agenda.

I have ex colleagues who live in grenfell tower. Others would've Been there all day helping. What's the problem with mentioning them? They're normal people like you and I.

Posting an accusatory and unfair post then finishing it by saying you refuse to engage with me is immature and passive aggressive in the extreme- why did you bother to post then?

Independent article about the cladding

It sounds like the cladding panels are made in the same way caravan walls are made. Layer of aluminium, then expanded polystyrene, then plastic. It would make a very light, durable material - and a great insulator.

But considering how flammable caravans are, it seems bizarre to clad huge buildings in that material. Flats have firebreaks, but if the fire can spread around the building melting the UPVC windows, all bets are off.

That's the issue I'd like to see addressed urgently. Is the above a fair description of the cladding? If so, what is to be done about the many buildings fitted with it?

Hindsight is 20/20, but I can well believe the building regs didn't forsee this. If I google, I just see environmental regs, rather than safety regs.

The hospital statement came from one of the other hospitals taking patients rather than the one that has the special burns unit.

The cladding does seem to be the main theory on the news etc.

As an eyewitness this morning, when I woke up at 5am the whole north side of the building was alight. DH and I watched it spread down the east side from top to middle. It struck me that the outside of the building was burning and spreading rather than just the flames coming out of the windows setting alight to the outside.

I could be completely wrong but other people seem to have that impression as well. There was a man interviewed on TV who said the fire started in the flat underneath and the flames were shooting past his windows and spreading up the building. He used an extinguisher to try and fight it but had to give up and leave.

Smoke inhalation burns your lungs . We have people on our burns unit that aren't badly burnt on the outside but they are inside

BarryGibbs I heard the same thing that none of those being treated in any hospital is being treated for burns, all for smoke inhalation.

Floofycat quite. I've come round to the usual conclusion of non engagement and not getting diverted.

Why it's taken me most of the day to work this out I have no idea.

Maybe it's because we are all so shaken by this horrendous tragedy.

I have a pile of clothes and toys ready to donate, but I'll wait now until people have somewhere to put them, at least temporarily.

Just bumped into my local cafe staff who took all their food and stock for the day straight over to one of the help locations. No one wanted to stay to leave the cafe open so they just left it closed.

I know it all pales in comparison to the grief and horror of it all though.

I'm just catching up with this.

Surely they had a linked fire alarm system? So if a smoke detector was activated, it sets off all of the other detectors too. I thought that was the norm in buildings like this? I have only worked with fire systems for commercial buildings with tenants living above, but the system was linked so that if there was a fire in the shop the fire alarm in the flats above would activate too. Someone will be going to prison on a manslaughter charge if it is found that the fire alarms were not working or that fire regulations hadn't been adhered to.

It is utterly, utterly devastating. Those poor people.

As if they would care what mumsnet think- it's not important to anyone else is it? What would be the motivation?

Oh but they do care what mumsnet thinks.

Mumsnet does well on the google results. If someone's out to do a bit of damage limitation they may well find this thread and include it on their list - or maybe the ex(cough cough)-employee is a mumsnetter already.

I really do admire all the rescue workers right now

The firefighters who are probably tormenting themselves thinking "if only I could have moved faster", working even though they are exhausted.

The staff at hospitals fighting to keep people alive and well

Ah never mind. Look if 8-10 people disagree vehemently with you and think your posts are tasteless and crass and sound like shilling, then either you're malicious, an idiot, or just so much smarter than all of us. Power of larger numbers and intuition suggest the latter isn't true. No point debating in either of the first two cases - so never mind.

Channel 4 News spoke to a firefighter (off camera) who said he'd never encountered such heat. He phoned his children because he actually thought he might not come out alive.

I keep thinking of the firefighters who climbed up the building today, or the nurses who rushed back after a 12 hour shift to help out on the day of the London Bridge attack. It takes a special kind of courage to work in those professions! Just in awe of their strength!

If it is the cladding, I wonder how many other clad buildings are using the same kind of cladding, and how long it will take to make them all safe.

In the meantime it will be worrying for people who work, live or go to school in such a building.

And indeed the police officers at London Bridge who ran towards the men with knives who looked as if they had bombs strapped round them.

Indeed, it takes a special type of person who moves towards fire when human/animal instinct is to run away. That is why I get furious when fire fighters pay and conditions are tinkered with. Same with ALL emergency and NHS staff. But it bothers me in particular with fire fighters.

Well yes, sometimes it's very hard not to engage but it's the best way otherwise it turns into a bun fight which I feel, especially at this stage, is very disrespectful to the victims.

It is highly highly unlikely that anybody with any genuine links to any company or person involved (or even any genuine professional knowledge here) would be unprofessional or foolish enough as to state their links to a company and then start stating information which is either facts which are very easily proved to be completely false or simply tasteless e.g. "the very good job". Even under the guise of anonymity or name changing.

I do feel though that with posts or posters like this, it's worth challenging once as it flags up on thread to other MNers that people aren't always who they say they are (in addition to reporting posts or posters to MN). Getting involved in an argument with someone who is certainly giving out incorrect information and/or possibly having an agenda is pointless and disrespectful to the genuine victims in the circumstances, though.

This might be interesting reading for some of you regarding the refurb of the building and fire safety system in place

One reply about halfway down states "The system is controlled by PLC and has links to the new fire alarm system to provide an initiating signal (one signal per floor). Once a signal is received all the dampers will close (extract and inlet air) and all four dampers in the smoke affected lobby will then open and all dampers on the other floors are to remain closed."

Bloody tragedy which could have been completely avoided.

Absolutely agree Herman

I wonder how many other clad buildings are using the same kind of cladding, and how long it will take to make them all safe.

If it's the cladding, it becomes not just a safety issue, but a national security issue. Because like it or not, there are people who would try to attack it deliberately.