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Grenfell Tower

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 04:49

Watching the news just now and I can't believe my eyes. It looks absolutely horrific.

I want to think everyone got out safe, but sadly I just can't.

Some of the news reports are about alleged poor safety standards and dangerous living conditions. If that's true it just beggars belief.

OP posts:
user1496484020 · 14/06/2017 13:13

Well anyone who waited to be rescued in the higher floors were fucked. Report saying firefighters couldn't get above 12th floor.

user1496484020 · 14/06/2017 13:14

There was another eyewitness who was saying the side of the building that went up like a piece of paper was the side the staircase was on so he knew people wouldn't be able to escape.

IfNot · 14/06/2017 13:15

Wtf. Now the management company are getting someone to go on social media and explain to all the stupid people how it wasn't their fault?? In a post full of contradictions? !
Do tall office buildings have sprinklers? YES
Do they have central fire alarms?
YES
My LA didn't provide me with a working group smoke alarm when I took my house. They said they couldn't pay for peoples alarms. I went to the fire service, who came and did a wired in one.
I call bullshit on the idea that proper checks and safety measures were not deemed nessecary because they are not effective.
They weren't deemed nessecary because who gives a shit about tower block tenants.

Justaboy · 14/06/2017 13:16

A lot can and will be said on this but once again we all in London owe it to the emergency services who have done their damnedest under the circumstances.

I hope that the idiots who let this happen will do their time in prison:(

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 13:16

I don't think (for good reason) that most people have really thought about the reality of fire in a tower block, but it's not a normal building. It's old, it's complex and it's full of people in private dwellings, making it very different to say an office block.

No building is fire safe but there are scales as to how safe they are. Old buildings don't fare well.its very sad to think about but it's also extremely rare, thank goodness. Small fires are being contained and put out weekly in an estate like this. It's not a lack of effort. I just hope something didn't go wrong with the refurb.

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 13:17

IfNot you're very wrong in your whole post. You obviously have very strong feelings of being alienated though and I can't argue with that

11122aa · 14/06/2017 13:18

Blue flames were sported at one point so gas was involved in the fire.

DogStrummer · 14/06/2017 13:18

So the cladding company went into administration, then was taken over by a new company owned by the same director? Looks like a standard Pheonix, and it's a damn shame this is still going on.

www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/09/14/cladding-firm-harley-curtain-wall-pre-packed/

Looks like they did quite a bit of business. Time to look at those other blocks.

These blocks have been around since the 60's/70's, but we've never seen one totally consumed by fire in 20 mins.

BigYellowJumper · 14/06/2017 13:20

I don't even know what to say, it's so awful.

I'm so sad and so angry - how can this happen? People living there knew the building was unsafe and those in charge did nothing. What kind of choice is it to be homeless or to live in fear?

The people who allowed this to happen have utter contempt for human life.

cathf · 14/06/2017 13:23

Changednomnom, your post is very informative and I hope some pp digest it, not just shout you down because you are not saying what they want to hear.
IfNot, I don't think anyone was saying it was the tenants' fault, are they?? I am certainly not, I was merely stating that tenants associations are not necessarily the most neutral of organisations, and 'warnings' such as the ones we have seen from the website of the TO in question are fairly commonplace, again, in my experience.

brexitstolemyfuture · 14/06/2017 13:26

Is it me or did the newly cladded building still look ugly? It went from 70s ugly to 90s ugly. Such a poor decision Angry

sleepingdragons · 14/06/2017 13:26

I remember visiting a freind in a tower block in Denmark about 20 years ago. I was amazed to see all the flats in her block had front and back doors, with a staircase on both sides.

She said, incredously "but don't you have two exits?! What happens if there's a fire?"

We've compromised on safety in tower blocks for far too long IMO.

HelenaDove · 14/06/2017 13:28

Not the same company re Grenfell but examples from another company of corner cutting and contemptuous attitudes towards tenants.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2595702-To-wonder-how-this-company-is-still-in-business

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 13:28

I've just seen the cladding - it's basically hollow on the inside, so potentially would have acted as a funnel / chimney for the smoke and flames to be carried upwards.

The mirror photographs also show children's ride-along toys left in communal areas.

Argeles · 14/06/2017 13:28

This is horrific, harrowing. I feel empty, numb. I cannot begin to imagine the horrors experienced by all those affected.

I live in West London and have just been sorting out as many things as I can to take to one of the centres where the victims are based. I've just heard though that people with such donations are starting to be turned away.

notanevilstepmother · 14/06/2017 13:31

Cathf I'm happy to hear what she has to say and I understand risk management fairly much myself, but I just don't think this is the time. In my view is disrespectful to speculate on deaths while the victims aren't even buried yet. I mean both sides of the debate to be clear. I'm not picking on either side.

There will be an investigation and a time for these discussions in the future, I just don't think it should be just now.

HelenaDove · 14/06/2017 13:33

cathf Can you please provide a link to the information that recommends that you should replace your fridge every year. Thanks ever so.

jonathan01n · 14/06/2017 13:34

RIP to the victims and hope the injured have a speedy recovery. Why there are so many tregidies in the world? May the God Help us. Sad

cathf · 14/06/2017 13:34

Hear hear EvilStepmother. That's what I was trying to say upthread.

Soubriquet · 14/06/2017 13:35

Replacing a fridge every year?!!

Seems highly wasteful....and it's not something people could afford to do either.

I certainly couldn't.

Mulledwine1 · 14/06/2017 13:35

She said, incredously "but don't you have two exits?! What happens if there's a fire

But when I lived in Frankfurt in the 90s I lived on the top floor (6th, but high enough) of a complex of flats. There was one staircase. Made of wood. No other exits. And the residents insisted on locking the front door from the inside because they were scared of burglaries more than fire. Now that was a death trap. Fortunately I was only there for 6 months.

Lack of proper fire safety measures is not confined to the UK by any means.

CoolCarrie · 14/06/2017 13:35

How can anyone insinuate on here that Tenent Assocations are unreliable in their comments and feelings on the area THEY live in ? The people who lived there pointed out serious concerns and people here are saying that these people don't know what they are talking about! Ffs! Have a word with yourselves

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2017 13:36

Amy Bottrill‏*@bottrill*
To those calling for people not to politicise this tragedy: it's inherently political. You cannot separate social housing from politics.

Owen Jones‏*@OwenJones84*

And it's the residents themselves who are making these points.

Someone else has already mentioned this, but there was a fire in 2009 in a block of flats. One of the main concerns was due to the single fire exit that contributed to people being trapped.

This sparked a report as it was felt the fire regulations were not good enough. This subsequent review has not yet been completed and has been delayed and delayed. There has been a failure to follow up on a previous incident.

I'm sure that part of the eventual inquiry will be not only whether current fire regulations were met but also whether the government followed up enough from the previous tragedy well enough.

The fears of residents are against this background. And one of currents to fire services (which includes fire prevention issues).

Comments like this I call bullshit on the idea that proper checks and safety measures were not deemed nessecary because they are not effective. They weren't deemed nessecary because who gives a shit about tower block tenants are therefore really relevant and should be heard particularly because this is what people most directly affected are saying.

Its not just people affected today either. Its anyone who is worried because they also live in a similar building. They should be made aware of what is going on and how safe they are.

If pressure is not put on to answer these questions, who is to say that no lessons are learnt from this tragedy?

Again.

Runny · 14/06/2017 13:36

The Daily Mail is suggesting that up to 50 people may have died, and it's unlikely that anyone on the top three floors got out.

How the hell has this happened in this country in this day and age when we are so obsessed with H&S?!

HelenaDove · 14/06/2017 13:37

Cathf doesnt like poorer people very much Going by her posts pre election.

So im not surprised to see the tenant blaming on here. Now tenants have to replace their fridge every year.

I went to school with a lad who is a fireman and i have to say this is a new one.