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Wheelchair Vs Buggy

300 replies

Twinning546 · 18/01/2017 11:11

I've just been reading about Doug Paulley being successful in the supreme court regarding pushchairs having to move for a wheelchair user. How does this work practically if there isn't any space to move to and you've already paid for your journey? Considering I travel with a large double pram with twins under 1 I can't just fold it up and sit with a child on my lap so I'd have to get off the bus.

OP posts:
scoobydooagain · 18/01/2017 19:11

OTs here (Edinburgh) give out special cards for disability buggies, maybe worthwhile if your can do something similar

HelenaDove · 18/01/2017 19:27

Soubriquet heres one ive seen.

"You get mobility allowance but you use it for other things"

Im betting a penny to a pinch of shit that ppl who come out with this shit also voted for the disability benefit cuts and yet expect disabled people to use more expensive taxis.

Hedgehog80 · 18/01/2017 20:33

I'd taken to using the blue badge but hate that as feel it's also too much info I'll look into the badges mentioned

Qwertie · 18/01/2017 21:07

Francis I totally support a wheelchair user having priority in the wheelchair space. What I find difficult to accept is the amount of vitriol directed at the carers of young children and vice versa, the vitriol from a small group of really unpleasant people towards wheelchair users. I believe it is a totally false opposion set up where it's one or the other when there could be discussion about helping parents and carers in this situation. They are vulnerable, because they have the care of another person or people that they have to put before themselves. I have fallen up the steps of the bus while holding on to my (then) toddler's hand, because the driver wouldn't wait. It feels a bit like there is some celebration at being able to force a parent and baby off a bus with suggestions of the driver "shaming" them to get off. How about using that 10 minutes "shaming" time to help fold the buggy & help get a seat for them. It makes me really sad.

Megatherium · 18/01/2017 21:43

Why anyone would think it was okay for someone with young babies to be thrown off the bus and possibly in very cold weather, when they have probably had to wait in the cold already with the babies is hard for me to understand

Busybee: why would anyone think it was OK for someone in a wheelchair to be left at a bus stop possibly in very cold weather when they have had to wait in the cold already, purely because someone with a buggy is using the space designated for people in wheelchairs?

Megatherium · 18/01/2017 21:51

I think you're completely misunderstanding my point, Francis I'm trying to point out that it is the media that have deliberately pitted wheelchair users against pushchair users. There should be a solution to accommodate both

In this case there was a solution. According to the report I heard, there were seats available on the bus; the mother using the buggy just didn't want to move to them because she didn't want to wake her baby up.

Why can there not be a ruling that a driver must assist a carer of young children with pushchair, shopping and children when the space needs to be made available rather than making such a negative ruling about young children and their carers potentially being forced off a bus

But that isn't the ruling that the court made. As explained upthread, all they said was that FirstGroup should change from a policy of requiring drivers to request but do nothing further in the face of a refusal, to a policy of requesting and, if faced with an unreasonable refusal, considering whether to take further action to try and persuade the non-wheelchair user to move. It's perfectly open to bus companies to change their policies to require bus drivers to get up and offer to help buggy owners fold their buggies. However, I would be very surprised if they do, because it would affect their journey times and profitability.

DanGleballs · 18/01/2017 22:01

I used London buses when my two were tiny. I was a single mum without a car with a 1 year old and a 3 year old. There weren't pushchair or wheelchair spaces on most buses. I still managed to get around, slings and pushchair, double buggies, single buggy and toddler walking, I adapted as they grew. I still got around, even in rush hour. You fold as you see the bus coming. I even managed to get my shopping back home too.

Wheelchair spaces are there to let people with disabilities get proper access If they aren't needed, bonus, park up your pushchair. As soon as they are needed though you move. I really can't see any argument bar the pushchair effectively being a wheelchair.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 18/01/2017 22:31

I'm interested in the language that some people use "vulnerable". I'm afraid I don't see how the sheer act of having a small child makes your vulnerable. There may be other factors, of course, but it's just a way to play top trumps and it's ugly. It's a wheelchair space.

FrancisCrawford · 18/01/2017 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iwannasnack · 18/01/2017 23:22

Parents aren't vulnerable but babies and young children are. Especially if they're being held one handed or passed around strangers on a moving bus while their parent wrestles with a buggy.
Some people, especially new mums really struggle with day to day life with their baby. Obviously it's no comparison to the struggle that disabled and wheelchair users face but can't we all have a little more compassion for everyone?

Originalfoogirl · 19/01/2017 00:08

This ruling is a great listen,forward, although as usual,doesn't go far enough, because, well, your just can't legislate for the downright ignorant refusenik.

Having a daughter in a wheelchair I've never had someone refuse to give up the wheelchair space. I think the look on my face usually says it all. But I also know it can be far harder for a person in a wheelchair to have to face that fight every day of their life, especially when often it takes enough energy just to get out of bed in the morning. In that respect I do worry for my daughter's future.

To those mums convinced that their special circumstances makes this ruling particularly hard on them, I invite them to spend a day in the life of a wheelchair user. For you, it's about maybe having to struggle for a minute or two to fold a buggy with the squad of young children you've decided to take out. For them this particular barrier is one of dozens they will face in the day. And tomorrow and tomorrow and all their tomorrows. Until you do a day in a wheelchair, you absolutely cannot pretend your life is harder.

It astounds me that people will STILL maintain toddler trumps wheelchair. Or that the worst thing in the world ever for a sleeping baby, wrapped up cosy in a pram to wait a little longer.

I've spent the evening pointing out to people on my FB why using the accessible toilet simply because you think you need the space, really isn't acceptable. Apparently I should be more prepared to "share" these facilities with parents when neither they nor their children have any kind of disability. 😡

People asking the question about two wheelchair users requiring the space. Well, we generally work it out amongst ourselves. If we're in a space and another wheelchair user needs the space, we can assist our girl to a seat (if her legs are good that day) and partially fold her wheelchair. If we have to wait because there is no space, we wait. That's only ever happened once in seven years.

HelenaDove · 19/01/2017 01:41

Saw this video on itv news at 6.30 pm The behaviour of the woman in the cream coat is appalling.

www.itv.com/news/2017-01-18/partial-supreme-court-victory-for-disabled-over-bus-spaces/

OnNaturesCourse · 19/01/2017 02:22

Im torn on this, and dont think its something that can have a blanket ruling to it. How can a person be discriminated against for traveling with a child, particularly in the cases of more than one child. These people also have appointments to keep, jobs to attend just as people with disabilities do.

FrancisCrawford · 19/01/2017 05:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bananaleaves · 19/01/2017 06:28

I don't drive and have had to go to hospital appointments with my baby before, knowing that I might have to give up a space on the bus I got a taxi. If you can't afford a taxi you get up earlier. I now have a cheap fold up buggy I bought 2nd hand for a tenner and I use that.

It's a small price to pay for the privilege of being able bodied isn't it.?

Twinkladdictmum · 19/01/2017 07:25

OnNaturesCourse Biscuit

PurpleDaisies · 19/01/2017 07:32

How can a person be discriminated against for traveling with a child, particularly in the cases of more than one child.

If the buggy is in the wheelchair space and a wheelchair comes, the buggy gets collapses or off the bus. That's it. That's what the space is there for.

It isn't discrimination against people with children. All they have to do is use a buggy that folds. You can't just say "I've got a child, I can go anywhere I want and do anything I want".

DanGleballs · 19/01/2017 08:37

If you are dependent on public transport and can't manage multiple kids then find another way to travel or space out your kids more. When there were no wheelchair spaces people with large families still managed, they were just better prepared, chose more suitable prams etc. I had a pram for walking and an umbrella buggy for the bus. Not many mums had three kids that were too young to walk.

Parents choose to have kids, people don't volunteer to have disabilities.

ThisYearWillbeBetter · 19/01/2017 08:44

Im torn on this, and dont think its something that can have a blanket ruling to it. How can a person be discriminated against for traveling with a child, particularly in the cases of more than one child

How can you be "torn" on this?

Discriminating against someone travelling with a child or children would only happen if they are refused entry. And it would not be discrimination in the strict legal sense, as "travelling with a child" is not a protected characteristic.

Meanwhile, people with disabilities are discriminated against several times every day of their lives. For a person using a wheelchair, being denied entry to a bus is a pretty regular occurrence, and it IS discrimination, both in the eyes of the law and in terms of natural justice.

ThisYearWillbeBetter · 19/01/2017 08:51

The behaviour of the woman in the cream coat is appalling

You can't argue with stupid, can you! That poor woman in the chair, just trying to go about her daily business. And I expect she has to deal with that low level abuse and blaming every single day. I'd find it difficult to leave the house after a while.

TheFairyCaravan · 19/01/2017 09:13

The behaviour of a few people on that bus was disgusting. The woman in the cream coat having a go at her, people shouting from the bus to hurry up, and they were trying to get to work! They should have been saying that to the person with the pushchair!

Last night I was arguing discussing this on FB on one of the news sites, one thick mother said if she gets made to leave the bus she's taking her case to court too!

OnNaturesCourse · 19/01/2017 09:14

See everyone going on about umbrella buggies...are you serious. They are so bad for newborn babies. The material base does not support babies backs

OnNaturesCourse · 19/01/2017 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

hackmum · 19/01/2017 09:29

Qwertie: 'It feels a bit like there is some celebration at being able to force a parent and baby off a bus with suggestions of the driver "shaming" them to get off. How about using that 10 minutes "shaming" time to help fold the buggy & help get a seat for them. It makes me really sad.'

Exactly. Your entire post is excellent. We need a bit more kindness and understanding all round, and less nastiness and name-calling.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 19/01/2017 09:29

Also. It is discrimination if they are told to leave the bus

No it really really isn't.

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