Wheelchair Vs Buggy

[Twinning546]

I've just been reading about Doug Paulley being successful in the supreme court regarding pushchairs having to move for a wheelchair user. How does this work practically if there isn't any space to move to and you've already paid for your journey? Considering I travel with a large double pram with twins under 1 I can't just fold it up and sit with a child on my lap so I'd have to get off the bus.

I think some people confuse "wouldn't be easy" with "wouldn't be possible"

Busybee3333 three little children is hard. But being disabled is permanent and invades every aspect if life, and trumps a mother and kids. That's all.

How the hate crimes and snide remarks towards disabled people have increased 2010 and impacted on my mental health and feelings of self worth...

^^ this. and take a peek at this thread in AIBU. some goadys on here too.

.www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2831624-To-think-its-common-sense-to-let-a-w-c-user-have-the-w-c-spot

I think you're completely misunderstanding my point, Francis I'm trying to point out that it is the media that have deliberately pitted wheelchair users against pushchair users. There should be a solution to accommodate both. Why can there not be a ruling that a driver must assist a carer of young children with pushchair, shopping and children when the space needs to be made available rather than making such a negative ruling about young children and their carers potentially being forced off a bus. I find it unnecessarily aggressive and quite targeted against another vulnerable "type" of passenger. Do you see what I mean?

11122aa - the difference is, you are expecting the person to get off the bus with the multiple young babies. I am sure there aren't many occasions that the same bus route has a pram with young twin babies. As a mother to twins (now grown up) you would just not go anywhere that you needed to use public transport if you were going to be thrown off the bus. So you expect a parent with twins to get strangers to hold their babies on the bus? I would never have had a stranger hold my twins on a bus. Have you ever tried holding twins at once? Clearly not! So you expect a parent to sit with twin babies and then if the bus jerks, the babies could be in danger of injury as the parent would not be able to stop themselves from falling forward if their hands were full.How do you expect the parent to safely sit and stand up whilst holding young twin babies? If you have one baby, you can safely hold your child and fold your buggy - not with multiple young babies. With regard to your comment that they can walk instead - if you think a person with twin babies in a buggy would rather get the bus than walk a journey if it was short enough, then you are wrong. I avoided public transport and stayed local most of the time, due to the hassle of going out with twin babies and a 2 year old.

The other topic has some shocking views. Through it's shows that drivers sometimes are just useless as one on there wasn't allowed a refund which would be a fair thing to do and i am sure most drivers would give one.

But you can still easily wait for the next bus more than prehaps the whellchair user. The spaces are not for buggy's. They for wheelchair. Look at the old Routemaster. It would have been near impossible to get non folded pram on there.

I work with the lawyers who represented Doug Paulley. Bizarrely, I was on a bus a few weeks ago with my nearly-two-year-old and my four year old, with the younger one asleep in his pushchair, when a wheelchair user needed to get on. I didn't want to wake my son so I told the bus driver I would get off and wait for the next bus. She thought it might be possible to fit the wheelchair next to the buggy, but looking at the size of the chair I could see that wasn't going to work. I therefore repeated that I would get off (older child kicked up a bit of a fuss at this, but there we are) and she said "no-one has priority, you know, you can stay on". I was really quite surprised that I was being dissuaded from volunteering to get off (and I felt bad for the man trying to get on, who was no doubt hugely embarrassed by this point), so I told her that as far as I was concerned, he had priority, and got off in a somewhat undignified manner with whingy 4 year old clinging on. She kindly gave me a follow-on ticket. I hope that if this ruling does anything, it at least avoids situations like that!

All that said, it did give me an opportunity to speak to 4 yo about courtesy towards disabled people, and he is now very clear about priorities on buses!

I've just been reading about Doug Paulley being successful in the supreme court regarding pushchairs having to move for a wheelchair user.

This is fantastic news & real justice. I'm so glad he won his appeal. It was a travesty ever thinking there was legal or natural justice in the lower court's decision.

Most people have choices about the mode of transport for themselves & their families.

People with disabilities do not have a choice about their disability.

That's a shame Francis it would be nice to see some support for helping someone that is probably unable to remove shopping, hold a baby and fold a pushchair on their own. "Refusing" is very negative and perhaps it may more often be a case of unable, because there is already so much negative feeling towards people with pushchairs and it doesn't seem like any more help is going to be offered to help a child and parent in this situation due to the really negative reporting.

Busybee3333 no one is saying that twins plus another is easy. It isnt. But it isnt a permanent disability. Just because that is a hard situation doesnt mean that it trumps the rights of a wheelchair user. I dont know why you cant see that.

I think the problem here is the buses not having special places for prams and pushchairs...they should be removing some seats and leaving special pram spaces..problem solved

Likelyhood i read is the new statute parlaiment will pass will ban all unfolded prams ( like the old days where people still coped) and prehaps in peak times unfolded prams too.

The bus companies are screwed ll ways

If they say a wheelchair has priority "Mother & Baby forced into the cold"
If its the buggy that has priority "Wheelchair user forced into the cold"
If they take out seats "Buses not running anymore due to excessive costs" or
"passengers left to stand while wheelchair & buggy spots lie empty"

They could use fold up seats. Trains have them in London to fit wheelchairs in. And unlike a tube train they always be someone to police it.

That was my point Slimming rather than scapegoating and blaming a "class" of particularly vulnerable able bodied passenger.

I can't think why it needed to go to court- the disabled person comes first. It was very selfish not to move.

I welcome this ruling as I think it's right...however I have dc who use a buggy because they are disabled, just a regular baby Jogger not a maclaren major or similar so not obviously for a disabled child and we get a LOT of questioning and I hate having to give our medical history.
Would be handy if there was some kind of badge we could show and prove it's a buggy yes but is a wheelchair 'equivalent'

It went to court because of the bus company themselves being stodgy. The new law in parliament will make it stricter. I suspect though some bus companies will have blanket no non folding pram bans to prevent legal consequences.

Hedgehog uou can buy badges which say "this is my wheelchair" or similar.