Maybe we should be very glad that Obama is going after all?

[Jupiter2Mars]

.. and is being replaced with someone with a very different outlook.

This is what Obama said yesterday:

" And then, in Germany, I’ll visit with Chancellor Merkel, who’s probably been my closest international partner these past eight years. I’ll also signal our solidarity with our closest allies, and express our support for a strong, integrated, and united Europe. It’s essential to our national security and it's essential to global stability. And that’s why the Transatlantic Alliance and the NATO Alliance have endured for decades under Democratic and Republican administrations. "

What's weird is that he's talking to Merkel, not Juncker or any other EU bigwig.

Germany is a member of EU and a member of NATO (only one of which is mentioned by name) but not leader of either. Not even nuclear power top-table for defence (no seat in 5-eyes, for example).

Did he refrain from giving EU a name-check, because he knows/believes that EU will not survive Brexit? Growing body of opinion that EU is doomed.

Really?
What war in the west was prevented by the EU? Surely the things that have prevented a war in Western Europe was WW2 and for several decades a common enemy to the East?

Sorry, but i think that particular argument is just silly rhetoric.

What DanceMeTo said

Jupiter warning the UK that they would be in a better position to negotiate trade deals with America within the EU was good diplomacy in the political sense of managing international relations. Keeping quiet would perhaps be diplomatic on a personal level, in the sense of not saying anything for fear of upsetting anyone but then kicking yourself for not having done what you could to prevent a negative outcome...

Political diplomacy doesn't necessarily mean keeping your mouth shut and watching your "friends" take decisions which make it difficult to keep working with them on the same level because they are basing that decision on incorrect assumptions about the strength of your friendship (all that we'll negotiate our own much better deals with America without Europe nonsense)...

Cameron is right wing and May sounded like she supported Trump. More than her words, her whole body language was disgusting, considering what Trump has been coming out with. Good luck UK.

And this:
"All a bit playground, isn't it? They're MY friend, you mustn't play with them!"

Believeitornot - really? I've never met anyone who thinks we're staying until now.
Did you see the yougov survey about the five stages of grief? yougov.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/five-stages-grief-most-remain-voters-are-stuck-den/ I guess you are in the 32% (of the 48%) so the 15%.

Also, the entire statement was about his visit to Germany. But in a context of a visit to other European countries. So, it makes sense to talk about Europe.

Of course OP you know everything and you know best. Because some things go beyond what you see on The History Channel.

Cameron is not right wing. He led a party that has historically been right wing, but Blair led one that has historically been left wing and there's no gap between the two men. Cameron is well and truly in the centre.

"Do you really think the rest of the world is shaking its head in disbelief

Vanilla - are you more into watching conspiracy theories on YouTube then?

*"Do you really think the rest of the world is shaking its head in disbelief

"With Trump, i do not know where we will end up, but he does not appear to be openly prejudiced against us, so its a good start."

What prejudice?

Cameron is well and truly in the centre.
Sure he is.

I meet people from countries all around the world in the course of my work. I can conform I haven't met one yet who doesn't think we are completely insane.

lwelj - I thought you were American? How would you know about the detail of British politics?

As for the war averted, the roots of the EU are in the Coal and Steel Treaty after WW2, tying Germany's key industries to those of other countries to make it impossible for it to start another land war in Europe.

I meet many people too from around the world through my work. Some think we should have stayed and even that the EU is a beautiful thing (an Italian man last week), others think we should go and their country should too (SEE -EU) and others think we are better off out on balance or that we are better of in on balance.

Basically its mixed picture, mainly because no one knows what the future holds, apart from pschics, the poster upthread and Obama.

Obama knows better though, but for some reason is choosing to ignore that in order to trumpet Germany.

But you'd have been happy with him 'trumpeting' the UK? You know, because of the 'special relationship' and all.

WW1, WW2, the Napoleonic wars, the Franco-Prussian War were all about coal and steel? That's the first I've heard of it.

Again the use of the word Europe when I think you mean the EU. Europe obviously has had wars since 1945.

Well it would've been nice (for us) if he had chosen to give warm words to the UK, but it was unlikely. Really I expected him to keep those opinions in reserve until he is out of office and writing his memoirs.

< I am signing out now>

pschics isn't a word.

No one knows, that's the point.

No one knows what will happen for sure when a new government/leadership/trade deal/big thing like joining or leaving the EU will happen, but there's usually a plan. There's usually someone who is saying what they intend to happen.

The government and leave campaigners didn't even pretend to have one!

It's the planlessness of it all that is the most unbelievable. And I would imagine that's the view shared by most intelligent people.

I will be honest and say I voted to remain. Not because I firmly believe that everything about the EU was in our best interests, but because not a single person had a plan for if we left. Fundamentally, I didn't understand enough about the whole thing, like most of the people who voted leave, to feel that I could make a truly informed choice. So I voted to maintain the status quo.

Some might think that was a cop out. I would imagine that Obama and other world leaders probably do have an idea of what it will mean for us, given that managing the world and relationships between countries and making the decisions that affect us all is what they do.

I would've thought that Canada was the closest ally but perhaps that's not viewed as international

I also think there's an element on longevity of the personal relationship

Germany is an important ally, why shouldn't he say so?

When I was in the USA a few weeks ago, several people brought up the referendum and were surprised st what had happened. And wanted to know how I'd voted. People are interested in British politics.

I think it would be undiplomatic for Obama not to have mentioned Germany. Why would he have mentioned the UK?