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Original poster

Maybe we should be very glad that Obama is going after all?

327 replies

Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 05:16

.. and is being replaced with someone with a very different outlook.

This is what Obama said yesterday:

" And then, in Germany, I’ll visit with Chancellor Merkel, who’s probably been my closest international partner these past eight years. I’ll also signal our solidarity with our closest allies, and express our support for a strong, integrated, and united Europe. It’s essential to our national security and it's essential to global stability. And that’s why the Transatlantic Alliance and the NATO Alliance have endured for decades under Democratic and Republican administrations. "

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insancerre · 15/11/2016 06:22

I think that special relationship only lasted as long as the loan the gave us around the time of the Second World War
Now it's paid, they don't need us anymore

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:24

5moreminutes - of course, I doubt anyone has forgotten Obama's remarks at the height of the EU referendum campaign. There was no doubt how he wanted the vote to go.

There is an argument that, as a foreign leader, he should have kept his opinions to himself, but his view is not a surprise today. Given that he spoke when he shouldn't have then, maybe I should not be surprised by the lack of diplomacy yesterday.

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Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:27

No, I do not think Trump will be rushing to do the UK favours. I expect him to take a neutral position on the UK.

I think that Obama appears to be rushing to do the UK a disservice and that is worse.

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QuiltedAloeVera · 15/11/2016 06:27

OP, do you think Donald Trump's presidency will be more beneficial to the UK than Obama's was? In what way(s)?

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:30

MizzEmma - perhaps your US friends should find out what being in the EU meant for the UK's future before comign to a conclusion. If they would happily have the US enter into a similar agreement with the rest of your continent, with say, Canada's economic policies and Mexico's social policies then they would be right to opine.

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DanceMeToTheEndOfLove · 15/11/2016 06:32

I would imagine that Obama's views echo most others at the moment.

It might have come as a shock to you, OP, but I think the rest of the world is probably shaking their heads in disbelief at us.

Even our government wasn't expecting the 'Brexit' outcome it got. Otherwise there'd have been a plan and they wouldn't have resigned en masse.

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:32

I think its not so much what Obama's has been as we have been in the EU throughout his premiership. Its the future that concerns me.

If Obama had stayed in power another 8 years, then I think, given his attitude and public remarks, i think we'd have been fighting an uphill battle. With Trump, i do not know where we will end up, but he does not appear to be openly prejudiced against us, so its a good start.

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MistresssIggi · 15/11/2016 06:33

Agree with Quilted. A weird thing to judge a presidency on.

5moreminutes · 15/11/2016 06:34

Why exactly shouldn't he have spoken out before the referendum Jupiter ? What is the logic behind that?

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:37

Do you really think the rest of the world is shaking its head in disbelief

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Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:38

5moreminutes - diplomacy (as I said upthread)

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DanceMeToTheEndOfLove · 15/11/2016 06:39

If Obama had stayed in power another 8 years, then I think, given his attitude and public remarks, i think we'd have been fighting an uphill battle. With Trump, i do not know where we will end up, but he does not appear to be openly prejudiced against us, so its a good start.

I would imagine that Obama is aware of exactly what this will mean for us going forward and Trump just doesn't care.

VanillaSugarCandyCanes · 15/11/2016 06:40

Do you know why we had the "special relationship" with the USA and boe it actually started??

Churchill agreed it. The USA only came into WW2 to save Britain because of an agreement where Britain PAID the USA to do it. Britain has been massively in debt to the USA for decades, hence the "special relationship" - a bit like a debt collector looking after a custom who make sure they actually pay.

The debt was finally paid off about 10 years ago which covers the full two terms of Obama. We don't need the USA anymore. The USA doesn't need us. But we both need Europe.

CashelGirl · 15/11/2016 06:40

Give that there is a maximum 8 year term, there is no way Obama could have stayed anyway. He wasn't even in the running. So what he says as he ends the run of his presidency isn't that relevant. Possible, if Cameron hadn't run away like a sulky schoolchild after the Brexit result, Obama may have commented on his relationship with him. But he hardly knows or has had any political dealings with Theresa May, so what is he going to say about her. Whilst I believe in giving everyone a chance, I doubt the Trump presidency is going to be good for the UK, or indeed anyone except for the Trump family.

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:41

You write that like you can see the future too! What does Obama know to be our future?

That's a genuine question because I don't know.

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Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:42

VanillaSugarCandyCanes - ummm, that's an unusual view about why the US joined WW2. More usually Pearl harbour gets a mention.

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Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:44

Please when people say "Europe", can someone define what that is? Is it the continent or is it the subset union?

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Bobochic · 15/11/2016 06:46

Who in their right mind would want a "special relationship"'(if there were one up for grabs) with a Trump administration?

The UK is beyond embarrassing right now. Not an international statesman to behold. The country is being led by people who shouldn't be entrusted with a parish council.

megletthesecond · 15/11/2016 06:46

If you think Obama has shown a 'lack of diplomacy' you'd better prepare yourself for Trump. That man doesn't appear to have a diplomatic bone in his body.

Muddlingthroughtoo · 15/11/2016 06:46

I get where you are coming from OP.
Also....a strong and united EU? I don't think so, how many countries are struggling? The people of France also want a referendum and if they leave it'll just be Germany floating the bank.

SouthWestmom · 15/11/2016 06:48

Isn't this about NATO? I'm just reading it as Obama doing what he can to remind everyone they need to keep paying - Trump has already indicated he thinks Europe need to pay more as America contributes an unfair share.

OddBoots · 15/11/2016 06:48

It may not be a view you share but it is not unreasonable to think that the formation and strength of the EU is what has prevented there from being another war in the west - for Obama to value that is not surprising. I can see why he would want to smooth the cracks the UK have caused in that.

Original poster
Jupiter2Mars · 15/11/2016 06:52

megletthesecond - that's true. He's completely undiplomatic, and that's not a good thing.

Obama knows better though, but for some reason is choosing to ignore that in order to trumpet Germany.

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nooka · 15/11/2016 06:52

OP you do realise that Obama's term was due to be completed regardless of the results of the election don't you? The next president is isolationist, has suggested that NATO is a bad thing, is anti global trade (at least in rhetoric) and has very little understanding of international relations. I can't imagine any world leader feels very positive about his Presidency apart from Putin.

Why is it poor diplomacy for Obama to talk about his strong relationship with Merkel? It's not exactly been a secret.

Believeitornot · 15/11/2016 06:54

Obama can say what he deems to be fit. He's leaving the White House and Brexit vote has happened

As for this: Like it or lump it, we are leaving the EU and we've got to make the best of it. Does anyone disagree with that, the official wording of the EU referendum is that it was advisory. And 16.1m voted to remain. So I disagree that we are leaving fully.

We will leave in a piecemeal fashion. We as a country are tied up in so many different EU relationships, that "leave" isn't straight forward. It isn't just about trade and immigrantion despite what Farage would have you believe.

Farage et al want "less control" from the likes of the EU because it means the rich can be less constrained and get richer. Not be bound by laws etc. It isn't about the "little man"