Page 5 | Burkini banned in France

LifeIsGoodish · 2016-08-17T08:23:47+00:00

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.[[http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-on-the-burkini-spreads-after-beach-brawl-in-corsica-fv7zjjk5d ]] [[http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-on-the-burkini-spreads-after-beach-brawl-in-corsica-fv7zjjk5d Burkin]]i[[http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ban-on-the-burkini-spreads-after-beach-brawl-in-corsica-fv7zjjk5d banned in France]] [angry][sad][confused]

Needabreaknow · 17/08/2016 18:38

Your source about Iran is from 2011. I need some evidence that it happens today. Also interestingly the law also restricts the appearance and clothing of men regulating their hairstyles, how tight their clothing etc and it says that they have also been punished for violations. The law in Iraq according to that source is that the punishments for inappropriate dress is fines or being detained. Some officers enforced it on men and women (it doesn't say how many) by physical assaults but that's not sanctioned by the law according to that source. But regardless it is an old source. A lot can happen in 5 years. Show me something that says it happens today I Iran.

Calpol your comments are a perfect example of how coercion of women to uncover is not about empowerment but about humiliation and forcibly undressing women. Let's not forget a form of cultural imperialism. Let me ask you what is so liberating about wearing a bikini? Also is it all women who you want to force to uncover or is it only Muslim women? I have seen Sikh women and Nepalese women covered in very similar ways to Muslim women do they need to be stopped from covering against their will. The way you refer to Middle eastern women shows that you think they should not have freedoms that other women have to decide what they wear. Just because the laws in 2 middle eastern countries (Saudi and Iran) restrict women's dress does not mean all women across the middle east are forced to dress modestly. I know many muslim women who cover and many who dont. Most of them agree that it should be up to the individual to decide for themself. There are many women who are trafficked and forced to be sex workers who will have to dress in clothes that are considered fashionable or are popular here. Should all western women stop wearing mini skirts, hot pants, stilletos etc to show solidarity with them? Of course not but that is the ridiculous thing your are expecting of Muslim women. Let women decide what they want to wear and what that clothing represents or means should be up to the individual to decide. So just because you wear a bikini does not mean you believe in the sexual exploitation of women nor does a woman wearing a burkini mean she supports terrorism (what the mayor said) or the oppression of women in other countries.

Dontyoulovecalpol · 17/08/2016 18:43

I couldn't disagree more with your post needabreaknow however Nina has stated it far more elequently than I could.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 18:43

needsbreak are you for real?

That actually happened in 1979 the day before the imposement happened. What do you think would happen today if they did that???? They certainly would be asked nicely to pop off home quietly!

Is it not enough thst 100,000 women did not want this? What a strange take on it to think 'oh well that was then I need proof that this isn't wanted now

3littlefrogs · 17/08/2016 18:46

This is such a disappointing mistake.
It has no parallels whatsoever with banning the burka.
I despair.

BombadierFritz · 17/08/2016 18:48

Needabreaknow, how about a quick google if you dont know much about iran? Or iraq? Perhaps you have heard of islamic state for example? They controlled quite a few places in iraq until as recently as last week, if that is recent enough for you? I believe they are 'quite strict' wrt clothing...

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 18:53

The reality is need is that a lot of women dont get a choice. Very young girls are wearing burkas/Burkini did they have an informed choice?

Plus the fact there is a vitamin d deficiency issue with Muslim women who have to dress like this - causing rickets

Dontyoulovecalpol · 17/08/2016 18:59

I also think you'll find it's extremely difficult to get information and independent reporting out of Iran needtotakeabreak i have no doubt it's far far worse than anything you'll find published here

Needabreaknow · 17/08/2016 19:10

There are people who have serious lung diseases from smoking. Or serious liver diseases from drinking alcohol. Are we going to ban them. No we give people the freedom to choose how they behave. Why do you not accord the same respect and dignity to Muslim women to decide how they dress. We are not their parents to decide what is better for them. You are starting to sound like those men you detest who impose their interpretations of modesty on women. This is what is empowering. Take it off. Show us this or that. How the hell is that any better. The burkini is a practical item it is worn by moderate Muslim women. Radicals would not wear it as it is probably considered immodest.

Nina my post wasn't directed at you. It was to a previous poster. Didn't even follow that link.

What is liberating about a bikini? A person can wear bikinis on the beach and be far from liberated.

Original poster

LifeIsGoodish · 17/08/2016 19:12

I want a burkini. I'm not a Muslim, I grew up in the UK and I am assimilated. But last summer I was caught out on a trip to the seaside (in France, ironically!) and made do with Capri-leggings and a rash vest. I felt so comfortable swimming in them. Much more so than in a regular tankini.

Why should I not swim covered up if that is what makes me comfortable? What business is it of anyone else?

This isn't about separating religion and state. This is knee-jerk xenophobia.

The fact that other women in other countries have it worse does not diminish this situation.

OP posts:

ToastDemon · 17/08/2016 19:13

Needabreak I agree with everything you've said.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:13

Who has said that women must wear bikinis?

Dontyoulovecalpol · 17/08/2016 19:14

Life that's contradictory- how can it be xenophobic when it stops you doing what you want to do yet you're not a part of that religion?

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:16

need what about the women who dont have a choice. It's ok bleeting on about choices but what about the women that dont? Why can't you answer that?

How can you look at a woman wearing a Burkini/burka and know that womsn has chosen to wear it. You can't.

ToastDemon · 17/08/2016 19:17

This whole thing just defies logic. The lives of some women in some regions of France are being made just that bit shitter. This will in no way make the lives of other women anywhere in the world any better.
Might radicalise a few more French men I suppose.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:24

Western women fighting to wear this when women in oppesive countries do not have a choice. You can get lashed or imprisoned in SA for not covering up this needs to be stopped and not faught for in other countries where the stigma is starting to creep in here too

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:27

No toast a few women on the beach is not the same as millions of women being forced under a shroud, it's looking the other way essentially.

Can you honestly say you can tell that every one you have seen wearing a burka\burkini is more then happy to do so?

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/08/2016 19:29

The question here isn't whether anyone chooses or doesn't choose or chooses entirely freely. It's whether banning burkinis will make the lives of women, Muslims and others safer, better, freer or less sexist and/or islamophobic. And I think it plainly won't. It will just segregate Muslim women more, which hurts them, their children and everyone else.

ToastDemon · 17/08/2016 19:33

I'm really just repeating myself now but I believe that women should have the right to wear exactly what they want. In France, in Saudi, anywhere.
And you don't get to tell them what it is they should be wanting, either.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:36

And if I went to SA I would have to legally wear a head scarf/covering. Where is my choice then not wear it??

mrs it is about choice! It certainly isnt about turning the other cheek to make the lives of some women easier. The segregation does not come from people who do not agree with this oppression - the segregation comes from the men dragging horrible regressive culture/political statment from extremist countries

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:37

toast and what about the women who dont want to wear it?

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 17/08/2016 19:39

"I don't see any ethical difference between forcing women to cover and forcing them to uncover."
I agree with that. France as a state is strongly secular and as such I am wholly supportive of its right to prevent civil servants, teachers, police officers and other state functionaries from displaying visible symbols of religious affiliation, including the burka and the headscarf, but this is nothing to do with that.

Ninasimoneinthemorning · 17/08/2016 19:39

And you don't get to tell them what it is they should be wanting, either

Ah ok - so if I went to SA where I would be legally breaking the law for not wearing one - should I just think fuck it I'll take the lashings?'

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/08/2016 19:40

I agree that covering women up at the behest of men is wrong. Absolutely. But please tell me how banning burkinis is ansolution.

ToastDemon · 17/08/2016 19:41

You know what? Anyone who is happy to see women hounded off beaches for the clothes they wear, fined, excluded, and segregated, isn't the friend to women they are claiming to be.
It all starts to seem a bit disingenuous.

MrsTerryPratchett · 17/08/2016 19:41

So in your world two wrongs make a right? Because SA is wrong. France doesn't have to be just as wrong.