Burkini banned in France

[LifeIsGoodish]

Instead of teaching people to behave with respect to each other.

Burkini banned in France

Don't I'm sure women in the Middle East have a range of opinions just as we do. Some are feminists and agitate for change. Some are happy with the status quo. Some have internalised misogyny and take it out on other women.
Just like anywhere really.
I don't disagree that things need to change there, in terms of women's rights. In worst-offender countries like Saudi, they need to change a lot.
I'd like to support these women in any way I can, and what I know, for certain, will not be deemed supportive, is dictating to them how they should and shouldn't feel.
And in the meantime, this burkini beach ban is short-sighted, pointless, mean-spirited, sexist, divisive and plain nasty.

It is arrogant . But sometimes situations are desperate.

This reminds me a bit of South Africa. When Mandela came in he forced positive discrimination. There were obviously few black people in positions of power and influence and they were unable to take up those positions because they obviously hadn't been educated and so on.

So he forced positive discrimination. Black people given jobs they could not do over white people who could. Was that fair on that generation? No. But how else where you going to have a future that included black judges, black police officers, black army officers. Black heads of commerce?

And this is similar. Some women might suffer but in future hopefully it won't be acceptable for extremely sexist societies to force their women to dress in a certain way outside of that country.

I hate what it stands for. This is nothing to do with religion but a political and misoginistic garment imposed by men.
And a bikini isn't? I get what you're saying but my point is that the reasoning behind this move is not going to improve the lives of women who want to wear a burkini on a beach but will be even more restrictive. The point of the burkini was to create a practical modest swimwear to allow women who wanted to cover up a way of doing so in a public place.

I'm actually from South Africa, are you?
BEE hasn't worked quite as simply as that, not at all.

This isn't similar to the situation in South Africa at all. No-one should be telling women what to wear. And I mean no-one, including not the mayor of Cannes. Because that is just two-wrongs stuff.

Not women who wanted to cover up. Women whose culture demands they stay covered up.

After all they're not being sold in top shop are they? On Cornwall beach shops on a. Chilly autumn day. No, they're overwhelmingly worn by women from the Middle East who are forced to cover their bodies in public. There are many many western women who like to dress modestly (most, even) yet they don't feel the need to cover their entire bodies on the beach do they?

Yes- well at least I lived there during my childhood. And of
Course it's simplistic and imperfect but these things aren't easily remedied are they?

Dontyoulovecalpol (like your name btw) this isn't the same as positive discrimination though as that would assume that the principle behind the ban to liberate women and I'm simply not convinced that it is but is instead a stick to beat the Muslim community in France. French politics are notoriously sexist and female politicians have regularly complained about references to their physical appearance and denigrating comments in parliament from their male colleagues.

The thing is it (and apologies for quick derail) that wealthy white South Africans continue to have no trouble finding work. There's been a bit of an increase in the black middle-classes but by and large there's just as big an inequality gap as there was twenty years ago, along racial lines. It hasn't really worked.
And seriously I'm struggling to see how it's remotely analogous.

I read an article on this in the guardian (I think) the author was calling for western feminists to fight for the right to wear this.

Id like ask who the hell was fighting for these women nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/09/15/the-day-100000-iranian-women-protested-the-head-scarf/ who didnt want to be covered up!

house t- shirt and leggings would have done the same. This isn't about modesty.

I find it really saddening and sickening to think of women and children forced off the beach

Tbh I find it more sickening that women in hugely oppressive countries have no choice but to cover up even if the don't want to and keep their heads down but yet in our liberal western countries women that never have to experience fight for it

T shirts and leggings wouldn't do the same. A burkini is made of swim suit fabric. It works. Neither a wet suit nor a t shirt and legging does the same. They are actually quite practical. If you burn and want to swim for example.

Burkinis are a bit of a tasteless eyesore on a beautiful Mediterranean beach.
Women aren't on beaches to adorn them with their beauty!
They should be able to wear whatever they want to wear.
If a woman wants to wear a swimsuit that covers her head to feet, then that is her choice. Even if the burkini was designs with muslim women in mind, it clearly has a far bigger market, with lots of women enjoying the sun protection and the modesty of them.
If it was called a full body swimsuit would there be the same complaints?

Tell you what is also sexist. The fact that when I look for suits for 5 yo DD with no breasts I get bikinis and frills. Were she a boy there are great shorts and rash vests. Of course I just buy from the boys section. But why are girls expected to burn while covering their non-existent breasts?

I do agree that both positive discrimination hasn't worked well (obviously) in SA- it was more the idea behind it- taking a hit on something now to reap the benefits later- and that France shows a great deal of racism in its politics and policy making. I suppose I just can't bring myself to disagree with a policy that bans a symbol of oppression of women by men, because I don't want women to have the Freedom to be oppressed. I want governments to step in and end it.

This is just one small
Part of the French policy of banning secular dress so isn't related to Burkinis per sae, as other posters have mentioned

I hate hate hate girls swim suits too. I also buy boys although have found jo jo Madame babe to be ok lately (ironically, what with it being French
)

So a Sikh man can't wear a turban on the beach in Cannes? Or is it just women being told what to wear?

mrs it's s lot bigger than that and you know it it. It is what it represents,

Ninasimone Reading this I was just thinking about the image from Iran that you posted, very powerful. Fundamentally I believe in the right to dress how you want be it Muslim headscarf, crucifix etc however when taken to extremes such as garments which obscure the face it promotes separatism and segregation which is harmful. France handles these issues in a clumsy way but essentially these dilktats stem from their perception of transgressions of their social model based on integration whereas Britain could be seen as more tolerant of difference whether religious or cultural.

I found good stuff in a Canadian company. Still small bottoms but the tops are rash vests.

It's not banned on the beach as far as I am aware (because this particular resort in this particular town has singled out the banning on Burkinis and made no mention of other religious dress on the beach)

However Sikh men wearing turbans would come under the ban of wearing religious symbols in public places

Great post maradesbois

its what it represents

What it represents to me is two sexist male structures arguing about how they would like women to dress. Neither is right but the French should know better, what with thinking they're are shiny liberal westerners.

Really mrs is that it? What about the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of women that are forced to wear garments like these? What can they do about it?

The burka/Burkini is a huge tool in female oppression. The political idea that you are a better religious woman if you totally cover up is a vehicle to get this point in easily.

All in one swim suits are a brilliant idea but there is an issue at the moment of extremist and fundamentalists which can't be ignored and western liberal country's should not be seen to support these chains.

mrsterrypratchett

I used to buy dds swim suits in next. They still do them...not sure about the frills