Another terrorist attack

[Kreeshsheesh]

Priest has been murdered. Apparently IS had threatened to target churches in France.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785

French protest

London protest

are two very recent protests.

you might like to think how much chance Donald Trump was of being the Republican candidate

you might like to think how much chance Donald Trump was thought to have of being the Republican candidate

Thanks. I had seen about the London one last year. I think it was on the back of some other march wasn't it? I hadn't seen the French Demo though. I really do hope we see more of this so that disaffected young people can be steered into those and feel belonging and power that way. Do you know of any anti-extrmist organisations I could join (I'm not Muslim) I really want to support the Muslim community to fight this and feel the solution, or our best chance of one, is in their hands.

Yes I saw London one too.

So where are the passionate flag burners we see when cartoons are drawn etc?

I think for the community its vital to keep these protests going keep momentum, keep dialogue open, proper security for family members to report radicalisation...

CuboidalSlipshoddy Tue 26-Jul-16 18:19:16

^^ Lets try again.

We are waking up to the threat.

Cubi

where did your march pictures come from?

www.hoax-slayer.com/muslim-protest-london.shtml

I also don't understand the rush to protect the feelings of religious adherents when there are people suffering injuries and bereavement arising from the most appalling circumstances. If you choose to embrace religion then in free, secular societies, there is criticism and scrutiny that goes along with that, and you have to accept it. I do not think you have any right to demand that public attention is averted from real suffering towards your plight, if plight it is.

Most people on the planet practice a religion karlos.

We won't find our way through this being allowing the world's largest religion to be stigmatised by the actions of extremists. That way lies more resentment, more radicalisation etc

All religious groups have a role to play in calming this down, promoting peace and offering solace.

Karlos - did you miss the part about IS slaughtering Muslims en masse? Or do you think it's no big deal when Muslims die?

In most of the IS attacks in France, Muslims were killed too and in several of them, Muslims tried to stop them (the policeman in the Charlie Hebdo attacks, the stadium security guard during the Paris attacks, and the shop worker when a supermarket was attacked).

So no, I don't see the reason for Zaid and Zaynab Average Muslim to be scrutinised or criticised.

Particularly when all Anti-State terror groups want two things:

1. Huge state reaction that impacts daily life

2. Punitive action taken against the community they supposedly represent in order to boost their support.

Btw, I would recommend reading Terror by Connor Geartey, who discusses this in greater detail.

So we all need to work together on this.

People have mentioned about mosques and Imams and religious leaders. The problem is people who join IS, generally aren't mosque attendees, so the traditional Muslim community has very little influence.

The big issue is the internet and online radicalisation as well as those who are radicalised in prison.

I think a fantastic idea would be fixing google, so that anyone searching for dodgy terms is instead presented with websites as to why joining IS is a very bad idea. I did actually contact a police force to suggest that, but I haven't had a response.

I think we also need to profile who is joining IS and all the factors that might be behind that, whether it's racial/social exclusion, a previous history of violence, or other factors.

Then we need to be examining counter-extremism work and seeing what works. I know Denmark have a programme for people who they've caught returning from Syria. Does it work? Could we learn from this?

How do we deradicalise and stop radicalisation taking place are all issues we need to examine urgently.

interesting points ipity, but how do re reconcile such imans as this

Imam Muhammed Asim Hussain, from Yorkshire

who on the one hand deplores ISIS calling them a violent sick group and on the other - agrees with the murder of a man to do with blasphemy in Pakistan?

its confusing no?

TheSun - That site is utter nonsense. I will never understand the mentality of using an anti-Muslim website, not written by Muslims to tell you what Muslims really think and believe about our own holy text.

The equivalent would be getting an MRA site to explain feminism and taking them as the the only source of truth.

If you distrust Muslims so much, that you don't believe what we have to say about our own religion, then there's a bigger problem.

I agree about the Internet IPity. This is clearly a huge and powerful propaganda and recruitment tool. Why isn't it possible for service providers, search engines, social
media etc to block this stuff?

Some excellent ideas there, Pontipines, but I'm afraid I can't agree about the traditional community having little influence. Granted the mosques may not reach the hard cases who don't attend, but these people don't work in isolation; they all need support, and I'd hope that imams/mosques could be a big part of dissuading others to give that support (excepting, of course, those I mentioned elsewhere who've been shown to actually encourage more division)

Then there's the home environment and social interaction, where I'd expect youngsters in particular to be carefully guarded against this poison. Indeed I don't doubt that most parents do exactly that, while recognizing that sadly, a minority of parents have passed on less admirable ideas, some even lying to the security authorities to cover up their complicity

Overall, though, I agree with you that any solution has to encompass all communities, with the caveat that there can be no special exceptions made on the basis of cultural sensitivities, religion or anything else

The Rushdie affair was in 1989. The British Muslim community was perfectly capable of being radicalised to the point if death threats without the internet to blame.

Pontipines Yes, some very good points there. However, before they are implemented, we, as a society, would need to establish some baselines as to what counts as moderate as opposed to extreme behaviour, and, as we know, not all communities agree on this. Fortunately, we already have some well-established guidelines, which is where your point, Puzzled, comes in:

I agree with you that any solution has to encompass all communities

We have a well-functioning and desirable legal system, ditto education system, security, health, etc.. All communities must subscribe to these. The lines for what counts as extreme behaviour were drawn up in relation to these systems and have served us well. Our legal, financial, political, education and health systems decide what is to be tolerated and what isn't. We cannot and must not have paralegal or para-whatever systems running alongside these, sending the message that the definition of what counts as an extreme behaviour may be flexible.

I just had a question for any Muslims on the thread. Do mosques or similar groups tend to run groups, particularly for teenagers, taking apart this radical ideology and going through the Quran to explain why the claims that ISIS makes are wrong?

My church (and every church I have ever been a member of) has lots of different forums in which people can raise and discuss all sorts of issues. This is especially strong for teenagers. If there was an extremist group that was appealing to Christian teenagers/young people and encouraging violence etc based on their interpretation of the Bible then I know that our church would have a real focus on looking at the claims that the group made and explaining why their interpretation was wrong etc. There'd also be a wider inter-church response with youth rallies, conferences, youtube talks etc doing the same thing. Do you get similar programmes within mosques?

Imam Muhammed Asim Hussain, from Yorkshire

This is his reach:
Imam Muhammed Asim is quickly growing to become a popular Imam and Speaker amongst Muslim youth in the UK. Renowned for speeches on contemporary issues and a "down to earth and on the level" approach

that relates to all age groups. Imam Muhammed Asim is also a regular on Ummah Channel.

Imam Muhammed Asim tirelessly travels throughout

the UK to inspire the youth to the way of Islam through his lectures, Imam Muhammed Asim has delivered talks throughout the UK and

Europe major cities, such as Oslo, London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bradford, Sheffield, Nottingham, Slough. Watford, Blackburn, Bolton,

Halifax,

Rochdale, Oldham, Derby, Luton, Bedford,

Reading, High Wycombe and many more.

After serving 3 years as Khateeb and Head Imam of Al Madina Masjid in Barking, Currently Imam Asim lectures in various Mosques in the North of England

" At a time when Muslims face greater scrutiny and hostility than ever before, due to the actions of terrorists and psychopaths claiming Allah as their motivation, the last thing they need is their own community leaders spouting such arrant, offensive and arguably criminal nonsense."

"Yet spout it they do, and will continue to, until they are made accountable and removed from their positions of authority. Hats off to those in the Muslim community who bravely take to the comments threads to make the case for sensible, modern, peaceful Islam, in the face of some pretty intense abuse from their co-religionists.

I cant find out if this man has been removed from his post? But his views are terrifying and he seems to operate in broad day light preaching to the young?

Gini,

it seems from the Imam I am talking about - on on the one hand he is condemning ISIS on the other he is applauding murder for blasphemy.

What do we do about this? What can Muslims do about this?

I don't understand how these kind of pronouncements aren't criminal incitement to hatred and the people arrested.

Kermiche disappeared the first time in March 2015, but was picked up by the German authorities and accused of trying to get to Syria using his brother’s passport. He was returned to France, but was given conditional parole awaiting trial. He disappeared two months later trying to enter Syria from Turkey using his cousin’s identity papers.

What an asset to France this family obviously are.

The problem isn't that he is spouting hateful nonsense, it's that this hateful nonsense isn't countered. A fully rounded education involves being exposed to alternative perspectives. We can only judge when something is of value when it's compared to other ideas. I would be against shutting him down. Instead, I would make it a condition that this speaker is followed by another speaker presenting a different viewpoint so that people, and especially children, realise that there are different viewpoints and alternatives (a position more accurately reflective of the complexity of social life).

Instead, I would make it a condition that this speaker is followed by another speaker

And that the audience are kept in their seats at gunpoint and forced to listen against their will, presumably?

I think it's interesting how Koran verses refer to punishing infidels and it is the atheists on Mumsnet who are supporting Muslims. A poster on here today even commented on the Catholic priest being murdered as being a problem with the church.

Until people start being honest with themselves about what is actually happening then nothing will change for the better as the people who are most apologetic for these acts of terrorism are not even remotely linked to the perpetrators.