Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

Schadenfreude now all over the twitter sphere as liberal 'refugee inviting' Germany is " "handed it's arse on a plate"

This thread illustrates how angry people get at being 'shut down' with personal attacks and not allowed to air a point of view.Pressure has been building for 30+ years ! They call it PC.

Noone on this thread has bee shut down and the only personal attacks have been toward those expressing empathy for the 17 year old.

People talk all sorts of gumph on twitter and crowing about Germany getting this for accepting refugees is pretty dire.

The only "shutting down" going on here is of people who want to look at the broader picture and to wonder why a 17 year old might do something like this.........

I don't see any posts here saying they only feel for the attacker, nor any saying they have more sympathy for the attacker. In fact, imo the only reason anyone is still talking about it is because they are being told they are wrong!

Lots of people go through terrible, terrible traumatising stuff as kids (and adults) and don't end up attacking people with an ace. - this isn't just about traumatic experiences, it's about the whole environment this child will have be brought up in, the indoctrination and brainwashing, possibly from birth. Have you never seen images of child soldiers in Afghanistan, 5year olds with guns FFS! This may well be how this young man was raised, he may have been only ever taught to hate, he really may not know anything different. Lucky you to have been born into a situation where you are capable of love and taught compassion, whether you choose to exercise that compassion or not is entirely your choosing however.

"Nothing like adding to the unpleasant times, eh?"

This

I'm not saying they shouldn't have shot him, I totally understand why they did. The police sometimes have to neutralise a threat and that's the only way they can.

I think it's a sad end to a sad life, is all - not just that he was shot, but that he ended up doing what he did and that was the inevitable consequence. Sad for everyone.

Very few, if any people are simply naturally evil, IMO. If they were, ISIS wouldn't have to radicalise them they way it does, would it?

It's incorrect to think that having this kind of all-round compassion is somehow weak-minded or stupid or ridiculously lefty. It's a central plank of that ancient religion that is Christianity, for starters (or is supposed to be). I'm not religious but if I was a Christian I'd be expected to think like this as part of it.

Many violent crimes happen everyday in UK cities and indeed cities across the world. Many of the perpertrators of these have terrible childhood experiences, neglect at best, abuse in many cases. When we hear of these crimes which are often done by people even younger than 17 do we feel sympathy, do we even bother to ask about their childhoods? Often we just say how awful and evil they are, like those 2 girls that killed that lady recently. Why do we give more understanding to this one and not others?

Mistress Mia is right, we need to be looking at the radicalisation process.

I know EVERYBODY on here will be expressing how sorry they are for the victims who after all had done nothing to anyone and whose lives will be marred by this forever even if they recover from their injuries.

I'm happy to be corrected sporting but I don't think I've ever said anyone is evil. For a start, "evil" has religious connotations that I don't believe in.

Yy Zans and others.

Emotions are complex things. You can feel horrified, scared and sorry for the group, while also feeling sad that the perpetrator was ever in a state to do that.

My basic view is that if you wouldn't want to live someone's life (and I definitely wouldn't want to have lived his), then they deserve something like sympathy or compassion. That's not even close to saying "not a problem, all is forgiven and forgotten, if you want to murder someone go for it!"

Just awful for everyone involved, and yet another incident which will inflame further problems for everyone.

And yy that demonising people doesn't help us understand or perhaps prevent this stuff from happening

I don't think anyone on here has said that the perpetrator deserves more sympathy than the victims. That would be bizarre. Of course it must have been terrifying for everyone on the train, the physical and psychological injuries inflicted must be horrific. The police obviously had to kill him.

Some people are recognising that he was human too and saying that it is possible to have compassion for everyone involved when something awful happens. Happy and balanced people don't commit atrocities. (Not every traumatised person attacks people, of course, people deal with things differently, some internalise their trauma and deal with it in different ways. )

I met someone caught up in a similar attack a few years ago. She had sympathy for her attacker who had been seriously let down by mental health services.

Since when has having humanity and compassion been left wing? That's really sad if you believe right wing people can't have empathy and sympathy.

Also, how progressive is it to see the world as "good vs evil"? That is so backwards! It's a massive over simplification and contributes to why we are in this mess. No one actually sees themselves as the baddy, they see themselves as "heroic" or as "freedom fighters" or "having no choice" - that's the problem and spouting more fear and hate on here will not sort that out. It is only through understanding that these atrocities can be prevented.

"When we hear of these crimes which are often done by people even younger than 17 do we feel sympathy, do we even bother to ask about their childhoods? "

Yes, I do. Always. And I have been roundly abused for it.

And, incidentally, I would never use "evil". I am not a religious person.

"My main point is when there's so many people in the same circumstances/situations as the attackers why do they not do the same thing?"

Why do some ex servicemen who have experienced trauma go on to commit violent acts- flame me if you want- doesn't make it less of a fact that some do - and others not?

Okay need, I agree with that. Doesn't mean we can't spare a second thoughts to wondering what made him do it though, rather than right him off as just 'evil'.

Why do some people abused in childhood go on to be abusers and others not?

We need to ask these questions and try to find answers. Shouting at anyone who wants to go deeper than "They are just pure evil" is not constructive at all.

Why do some abused children go on to commit DV, why do some DV perpetrators go on to murder. There is obviously more to it than just mh or previous life experience.

X posting with Bert all over the place!

"Emotions are complex things. You can feel horrified, scared and sorry for the group, while also feeling sad that the perpetrator was ever in a state to do that. "

^ exactly. Only some people on these boards think very black and white perpetuating the myth of the enemy within. This myth is fed by the Daily Mail. Simplistic hateful thinking is not going to solve the complex problems of our times. Trying to understand context and having effective global and local politics on the other hand might go a long way. Shame that politicians and business around the globe are mainly pursuing very narrow economic interests.

Let's also please remember that it was one of our own politicians Tony Blair who created havoc in that part of the world, ok? Many of these Afghans wouldn't be in Europe if it weren't for Mr Blair.

News has just updated that a handpainted IS flag was found in his bedroom