Page 6 | Germany :(

nuttymango · 2016-07-18T20:50:49+00:00

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train. BBC breaking news - [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725]]

Inkanta · 19/07/2016 15:39

It must have been absolutely terrifying for those commuters. Have never heard anything like it.

Real terror!

Just5minswithDacre · 19/07/2016 15:56

Okay need, I agree with that. Doesn't mean we can't spare a second thoughts to wondering what made him do it though, rather than right him off as just 'evil'.

Twenty past midnight, when the news was still filtering through, when the thread took a sharp turn with the posting of the "poor people on the train and poor 17 year old" remark, was too soon to be thinking about him at all.

The bien pesant virtue signalling that followed was revolting.

There's a serious conversation to be had about trauma and radicalisation but that wasn't remotely the time.

Just5minswithDacre · 19/07/2016 15:57

Okay need, I agree with that. Doesn't mean we can't spare a second thoughts to wondering what made him do it though, rather than right him off as just 'evil'.

Twenty past midnight, when the news was still filtering through, when the thread took a sharp turn with the posting of the "poor people on the train and poor 17 year old" remark, was too soon to be thinking about him at all.

The bien pesant virtue signalling that followed was revolting.

There's a serious conversation to be had about trauma and radicalisation but that wasn't remotely the time.

lovemyretsis · 19/07/2016 15:59

"There's a serious conversation to be had about trauma and radicalisation but that wasn't remotely the time."

Says who?

SemiNormal · 19/07/2016 17:38

There's a serious conversation to be had about trauma and radicalisation but that wasn't remotely the time. - I beg to differ, I'd say that conversation is long overdue!

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2016 17:39

"Twenty past midnight, when the news was still filtering through, when the thread took a sharp turn with the posting of the "poor people on the train and poor 17 year old" remark, was too soon to be thinking about him at all"

Why?

SemiNormal · 19/07/2016 17:40

I've seen the way some of these muslim creeps in their "cultural dress" glare at my daughter and mutter about her when she is wearing shorts. I try to discourage her from wearing shorts if she is going on the bus on her own. DD is 12 years old and I worry for her safety. - and don't you sound just fucking delightful 'MUSLIM CREEPS', of course I'm sure there are no other creeps eyeing up your daughter, just muslim ones right?

Flufflepuff · 19/07/2016 17:42

Cleo ... Can you honestly say you'd have liked to live his life? Without dismissing the sheer horror those people went through (and I really really can't imagine how frightening it must have been), can't you spare any mental sympathy for someone who was once a small wriggling baby like any other, born without any innate conception of hatred or politics or war, who eventually grew into that person with that ending?

That was it. That was his life. Over and gone forever because of the world he and others are born and brought up within. And his story's sadly not close to unique. Again, that's NOT the same as saying his actions are remotely excusable or OK because that's nonsense. It's not to say his victims don't deserve sympathy, or that he deserves more.

But I just can't comprehend not feeling any form of something like regret and sadness for him and others. I feel that sort of thing automatically alongside feeling sickened and sorry for the victims.

Weirdly it reminds me of the day we spent watching the rolling footage during 7/7, when this 60-something looking man was being interviewed, clearly dazed, covered in dust and cuts, and the interviewer asked him "how do you feel about the people who carried out these attacks".

I cringed, waiting for the inevitable "oh the shits, I'm furious, we should invade their country and shoot the fuckers" sort of response, and he flabbergasted me (and the interviewer) by replying without even blinking something like "I feel desperately sorry for them. No one in their right mind would do this."

It really stuck with me and even now, makes me pause thinking about it.

I'm not trying to virtue signal (?) or something, I'm just trying to explain how I feel about it. My sibling works in a relevant role and I worry frequently about this stuff and their safety, and there have been times I've been terrified by the dangerous incidents they've been through and felt something like hatred flaring up - but it's not acceptable to effectively dismiss the people they work with as vermin. It's so much more complex than that.

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2016 17:42

And i find it deeply offensive when people say "virtue signaling" when they mean "acknowledging the complexities of a situation".

OhYouBadBadKitten · 19/07/2016 17:47

agreed Bertrand, it seems to be a phrase trotted out against anyone who wants to help or shows concern too. Though it does bring to mind the image of a crayfish I once saw in a stream wildly waving it's big claw at me!

Inkanta · 19/07/2016 17:57

This is getting a bit silly.

A few hours after this axe man walked down a train hacking at commuters.

What must they have gone through - 18 people and 3 critical.

I put myself in their shoes and feel for them. Poor people.

The axe man had to be stopped and shot.

Well done to the police - are my thoughts.

Might get curious and read up on the axe man next week.

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2016 18:00

Yeah, well. Some of us are capable of thinking about more than one thing at a time.

shins · 19/07/2016 18:00

Have you seen the photos of him? If he's 17 so am I

Can we stop the "poor child" stuff?

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 19/07/2016 18:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fakenamefornow · 19/07/2016 18:08

Odd that the victims were Chinese, I wonder if there was more of a racist elements. I expect there were a lot more Germans on the train, I wonder if he singled out the Chinese family?

RhodaBull · 19/07/2016 18:12

As an earlier poster noted, when Jo Cox was killed I didn't read this on MN: he was once a small wriggling baby like any other .

Flufflepuff · 19/07/2016 18:24

Perhaps because I wasn't here that week Rhoda? Mumsnet isn't a static entity with fixed views.

Of course that's true of Jo's killer, and every killer. That doesn't mean I like killing or something.

Cleo1303 · 19/07/2016 18:30

SemiNormal I'd be just as upset if I saw any dirty old men eyeing her up but I honestly haven't seen that just young muslim creeps. It's overwhelmingly large organized gangs of muslim paedophiles who have been targeting young white girls in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and all over the place, isn't it. They have no respect for young white girls and their communities seem to be more upset about their being jailed than the rapes and assaults of young white girls.

Flufflepuff The Afghan boy was an "asylum-seeker" with foster parents. He presumably told the authorities he was in danger in Afghanistan from the Taliban, but he was just the same as them. If he had wanted to genuinely be part of German society he wouldn't have been carrying a lethal weapon and be attempting to murder innocent people.

lovemyretsis · 19/07/2016 18:37

I totally agree Bert.

lovemyretsis · 19/07/2016 18:37

it's the rule of the mob, just like in Turkey.

Flufflepuff · 19/07/2016 18:43

... But he wasn't born that way was he Cleo? No one is. It's not a life I'd want. See above post.

(I give up though, if you can't see the point I'm making by now, you won't, and you'll just find me antagonistic too).

Cleo1303 · 19/07/2016 19:03

No, Flufflepuff, he wasn't born that way. The danger is that he was radicalised and this radicalisation is now happening all over Europe including the UK, not just in the Middle East.

It's not a life I would want but clearly there is no hope for children like that by the time they reach their teens if they have been brought up by families who celebrate violent death, just like all those children in Syria who witness the ISIS executions. That is their norm and because they have no moral compass they are a danger to Western society. I do have sympathy for the three-year-olds brought up to hate us - it's their parents' fault, not theirs.

I really do think people like this Afghan would be happier living in Muslim countries. They clearly loathe what they see as our Western "decadence.

Abraiid2 · 19/07/2016 20:03

I put myself through in their shoes, too, especially as, as I have already posted, my own teenage son was on the same train route shortly before this happened. I promise you that I have very clear images going through my mind, wondering how my son would have responded, what might have happened to him, etc.

That, and my horror for the victims, doesn't mean I can't still wonder what went through the perpertrator's mind and shudder at such a young person, assuming he is 17, same age as one of my other children, ending up shot dead.

If that is 'revolting' so be it.

lovemyretsis · 19/07/2016 20:11

I am completely with you Abraiid2. Thankfully not everyone is getting out the virtual pitchforks.

TwistedReach · 19/07/2016 20:14

I feel so heartened to see so many who want to understand how and why people may end up so completely out of touch with anything healthy or life sustaining inside them.
One of the many tragic outcomes of atrocity is that violence breeds more violence and retaliation. Being able to think about this and trying to understand how it happens, is in my mind the only way we can ever hope to make things different.