Germany :(

[nuttymango]

And now Germany - an axeman has attacked people on a train.
BBC breaking news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36827725

Extremist on both sides are the issue - the vast majority of people are not.

Ask a terrorist Shin? How would one going about that?

Terrorists want to cause fear and discord, they want to advance their cause, they want others to join them. I think that is a reasonable summary.

Daily Mail gives the fullest account in English:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html

Slitting a priest's throat and taking nuns and parishioners hostage in a church is provocative in the extreme. The two assailants have been shot.

Well Islamist terrorists are all over social media and regularly disseminate videos and tracts. They want to establish a global caliphate and kill unbelievers. I don't think this is exactly fast breaking news.

That is a horrific thing to have happened near Rouen. Those poor people.

We know Islamist extremists are evil. There is no doubting that.

I haven't found any reports describing who the assailants were. TBH, I assume they are Islamic extremists, but it's not confirmed. We could still be surprised.

Bakewell, I have Muslim friends too, but I can see that Islamist attacks seem to be becoming a day-to-day reality. It's not one I like and IMO it will just feed the far right. I think the reasons behind these attacks are complex and there are a range of motivations and attackers come from a broad variety of backgrounds, just as I imagine those from the far right do also, no small child is born a far right/islamist, they become that through their life experiences and choices.

I find using a wide variety of sources to find out information gives me a broader perspective on events and some pick up on detail that others don't, I also use foreign news sources because I am lucky enough to speak a few languages and I have found that again you get some detail you don't get here and also sooner.

I don't go about scared on a day-to-day basis but I am informed enough to keep my eyes open and wits about me as a matter of course.

Les deux forcenés ont fait irruption pendant la messe
Les premiers éléments de l'enquête indiquent que les deux forcenés se sont introduits derrière l'église pendant la messe. Célébrée par un prêtre, elle était suivie par quatre fidèles, dont deux soeurs. L'église est située rue Gambetta. Les preneurs d'otages étaient en possession d'armes blanches. Selon des sources policières, au moins l'un des deux forcenés portait une barbe et une chéchia, petit bonnet de laine porté par les musulmans

That's from Le Figaro which is right wing, so...

Not confirmations as yet though.

RT has reported from a local source that one of the assailants is alleged to have shouted "Daesh" as the attack commenced.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/26/two-men-with-knifes-take-hostages-in-normandy-church/

Telegraph also reporting same

Goodness heart breaking.

By the way the talk of sides is odd, there is one side - Isis! None of recent problems were prevalent a couple of years ago, a mixture of open boarders and now these atrocities, are fueling the far right.

Sorry my posting was unclear. I too read a variety of sources, some of which I do use the wonders of Google translate for. Just allowed irritation towards a poster to provoke sarcasm. Not pretty.

I have lived in Muslim majority areas in the UK and in France many friends were Muslim origin if not practising. I have relatives and acquaintances in Fundamentalist Christian groups and that's interesting to experience too. I envy faith in many ways and my path has led to many religious friends.

But I left the right on pals behind years ago and now only get exposed online..so am far less tolerant than I might be..

bakewell

adore a good bakewell slice! Your making me crave one. ( or attempt to make one}

Bakewell, I live currently in a Muslim majority area and whilst I do have many friends and aquaintances of that faith I have seen a swing in recent years to the more conservative forms of the faith. I don't know many what you'd call fundamentalist Christians, round here there is just 1 CofE and one Catholic church, Many of our EE friends are Catholic but don't practice, there are the African and West Indian churches though which are very lively as far as I can tell (they always hold bbq's and all are welcome!). I myself am Pagan which is something I am very careful not to mention as I am aware that it's not something many religious people understand.

I try not to let other posters provoke an emotional response from me. This is just a forum and in no way reflects the reality of my day-to-day.

Don't mad, I like baewell tarts, especially the iced ones and you're making me think of them. I am trying to be good!

I know,I know, I don't post much but occasionally get sucked in..

Another horrific attack

Europe is under attack from Islamist terrorism some will work alone some with support but one thing is connecting them and that is an ideology

It's very worry times for Europe the right parties will gain more support

It's reported that another two have been arrested in connection with the atrocity in Nice, making seven in all: www.france24.com/en/20160726-two-more-arrested-nice-connection-bastille-day-attack

So much for the remarks that he was probably acting alone ...

I think that there is very rarely a lone person with that kind of motivation. It seems that there is a whole network setting it up often. They prey on the ones that will do the deed and get them set up to do these things. ISIS have said all along they have networks stretching from Syria and Iraq and quite honestly it is quite probable that it can be set up. The internet and global comms can do that, global travel is easier than ever and there are things such as dark net. So for one person who becomes the suicide of the piece there are probably many more shadowy figures behind.

I think the nature of the lorry attack could have seemed like he went mad spur of moment and decided to ram into crowd. On the other hand there was the arsenal in the back of it. But I think its clear now, he had been carefully planning the attack for a year and has some sort of support.

The issues I am sensing from reading about Radical Islam is that you only need one or tiny amount of radicals for their reach to go far.

In that its hard to argue agaisnt their interpretation of the Quran, so other family or community members who may not know much about it, are in a difficult position. eg I had a friend with relaxed parents, who saw white boy. They were not wild about it, but didnt make a fuss, it was the uncle who was very strict scholar who caused all the problems, and in the end she had flee her family and live under the radar, call her mum very rarely.

Ie, in other circs, you would tell uncle to bogg off, none of his business etc. But it was hard when he was quoting and interpreting religious texts then accusing this girl of all sorts ..trapped.

So for one person who becomes the suicide of the piece there are probably many more shadowy figures behind

That's precisely the point, isn't it - the complex network. It was once explained to me that the hierarchy goes something like this:

Leaders who preach whatever the doctrine is
Plotters who plan how to carry out the attacks
Financiers who raise the money
Those on the ground who actually commit the atrocities
Useful idiots who excuse, deflect and otherwise seek to confuse

None of them can function effectively without the others, but untangling and dealing with them - at least within the western concept of civil liberties - is, of course, something else again

Allthemad, that's spot on.

It's also, sadly, exactly the interpretation of Islam which we were taught at school in KSA. Tolerant to a certain extent (Christans on the right path, but need to embrace the true faith, which is why anyone who coverts is a returner, Jews well, utterly beyond the pale, particularly where Palestine is concerned) but in the main absolutely terrifyingly misogynistic, violent, hate-filled and a frightening way to live. Especially as a female - covered, mute, without any rights at all.

It is this interpretation of Islam that is frightening the Muslims I know who live and have been brought up in Europe.

They are watching the increase of hate preachers, women being covered, coercion to become more observant than your neighbour and to shame them for it.

Many have asked me WTF we are doing standing by and letting the poison spread.

I point them to places like this, where the well-meaning but woefully ill-travelled and frankly ignorant are attempting daily to silence any debate about this and shouting the odds about Islamaphobia and racism.

It is that dangerous inability to understand nuanced debate and a jack booting determination to cry racist where no racism exists that both stifles the debate and gives absolute power to those who wish our way of life over.

You know who you are. And I wish with all my heart that you genuinely understood the issue. I'm sure you're all lovely people but unless you have existed under such a theocracy, are literate in Arabic and have been 'taught' at a madrasah, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

My sympathy to all those affected.
Just awful.

I think, Mooingcow, that all the "you know who you are" people have slunk off today. How can anyone possibly excuse the perpetrators of this latest atrocity?