A plea to all Remainers!

[GardenBirdie]

We need to revive this petition, and quickly. It will be debated, in the spotlight, by MPs on September 5 and it's our best chance - through massive numbers, even if the debate is technically a formality - to show that those of us who wanted to remain in Europe are still here, and must be heard. Since the referendum, we've been all but ignored. Please, please, share this as widely as possible. ‪#18MillionNames - The new guard need to know we have to be listened to; We CAN make a difference. ow.ly/Ya7M302csoi

whenwillsummercome, there is one big flaw in your argument. The referendum wasn't voting for parties. Every vote counted equally and the people spoke, NOT politicians.

Everyone gets to vote in elections too, and every vote counts equally there. It's the people who speak in elections, not politicians.

I'm not being intentionally stupid, btw, I don't know what you're saying!

At the moment I think that TM should take a completely hard-headed approach, and say firmly that she has two red lines in her negotiations with Europe, and that until they are agreed, she will not trigger Article 50:

But Brussels has already said they will no negotiate until Art.50 is triggered. If they maintain that, we could never leave.

Who blinks first?

whenwillsummercome

You clearly have no idea of how elections work. All votes are not equal.
Some votes are 4 times powerful than the average, some votes are 50 times less powerful than the average. Referendums are different, in that ALL votes are EQUAL.

What is it you dont understand?

Brussels has already said they will not negotiate until Art.50 is triggered
TM can just bypass Brussels and negotiate with Merkal.

Theresa May has appointed David Davis as Brexit secretary

An interesting choice, considering that he appears to be one of the biggest eurosceptics of the lot

Why didn't she just appoint Farage instead and have done with it?

Nope. Like many remainers, on this thread and elsewhere, I'm not going to try to subvert the democratic outcome of this monumentally stupid, fuckwit, fuckup of a process, because I respect that 17 million people voted specifically to leave the EU. That's almost as many as watched Dirty Den leave Angie FFS, I mean this is a BIG number. I have, once, signed an internet petition but don't plan to do it again. Anyone who feels strongly about any of this should go and join a party and do the hard yards of campaigning, not fart around on t'internet. [continues farting] Internet campaigns are all piss and air - look how we as a country went from 'Andrea Leadsom, a fresh new voice in British politics!' to 'OMG this woman believes some truly scary things, keep her away from power' within a week.

There will clearly be a parliamentary debate about this, as there has to be, and that is a good thing, but only an extremely small number of MPs would vote for a motion like this, so it won't happen.

4000000 signatures on a web site with no audit and control
17000000 votes in a controlled and audited poll.

If you accept the idea of democracy you should accept the result, get on with life and contributte to delivering a successful outcome. If you don't accept the result you are at odds with one of the cornerstones of this country.

If you accept the idea of democracy you should accept the result, get on with life and contributte to delivering a successful outcome. If you don't accept the result you are at odds with one of the cornerstones of this country.

Alternatively, if you don't accept that 'democracy' should be built on lies, carry on fighting with whatever means you can.

It's worth signing so that the strength of pro Europe, pro EU feeling in this country is made obvious and our views are taken into account as the exit is negotiated. Otherwise we'll just be drowned out by a chorus of "brexit means brexit" bleats which really don't mean much. Brexit seems to mean something different to everyone.
People forget how slim the margin was. It's just not good enough to say "leave won now suck it up and accept whatever comes next". Leave won the referendum but leavers don't have some absolute right to dictate what leaving actually entails. I find it funny that people splutter about democracy and the will of the people whilst telling half the nation to shut up about it.

If we are going to ban "Brexit means Brexit" then can we also ban "the Leave campaign was based on lies".
At a crucial stage of the campaign, everybody was pleading for facts to help in the decision making process. The Government utterly failed to provide facts so people voted on gut feeling. We know that the Leave campaign lied and stretched the truth - it's what all politicians do, and it's what all politicians did on both sides of the Referendum argument.

We are not stupid: we know that there were lies about some things but those things didn't sway my vote - I voted Leave because of a load of other reasons.

can we also ban "the Leave campaign was based on lies".
No way should we shut up about this! We crossed a line in this campaign. We're used to spin and expect it, but barefaced lies on such an important issue should be challenged.
We are not stupid - some people are. Some people voted leave in the genuine belief that £350 million a week would go to the NHS.

Far from shutting up, we should do everything possible to prevent a campaign being run like this again. If the ASA's remit extended to political campaigns they would have come down on the infamous bus like a ton of bricks.

I actually think the best bet now is to lobby your MP asking them to sign this Early Day Motion

www.parliament.uk/edm/2016-17/269

"That this House believes the next steps arising from the outcome of the EU referendum must be subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny and therefore that the Government should not submit its declaration to the European Council invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty unless and until the full proposals it intends to submit to the Commission to activate the process of withdrawal from the EU are debated in full and voted upon by Parliament."

The debate on the petition won't go anywhere because they can't do it retrospectively. All we can ask is that parliament can vote on invoking article 50 before it happens.

It's worth signing so that the strength of pro Europe, pro EU feeling in this country is made obvious and our views are taken into account

I think the indisputable fact that 48% of voters voted to remain is proof enough that there is a pro EU voice - without silly petitions calling for a second referendum.

Some people voted leave in the genuine belief that £350 million a week would go to the NHS.

And some people thought that if we left the EU then they could never go on continental holidays again. There were stupid voters on both sides.

A debate in Westminster Hall is not the same as a Parliamentary debate.

There's a 'silly petition' here, too, which asks for for a delay invoking Article 50 until an Expert Commission reviews the impact of Brexit on UK.

link here

Whether you're for or against Brexit, surely it makes sense to assess the economic and social impact of something before taking irreversible steps to implement it?

What a stupid Early Day Motion, what use is voting on the proposals being put to the European Council before article 50 is invoked? You cannot work out what the proposals will be until you start negotiating them and that means using article 50.

In other words a childish way of saying we will never vote for any proposals so you can never use article 50. lol never going to happen.

If you accept the idea of democracy you should accept the result, get on with life and contributte to delivering a successful outcome. If you don't accept the result you are at odds with one of the cornerstones of this country.

Difficult to "get" on with life when it's crashing round my ankles
"Democracy" based upon lies isn't a cornerstone

I fully support a second referendum. I've signed the petition and promoted it on social media.

Too much is at stake here. I can't just roll over and accept this car crash.

You have to roll over and accept this car crash because of the referendum result. Remainer here btw. I hate it. Whenever I come across someone who does something stupid or thoughtless, I mutter to myself "bet you voted leave". But trying to get a rerun of the referendum is a waste of time, energy and,frankly, hope. My dd deserves me to make the best of the crap hand we have not to complain about what I can't change.

TM can just bypass Brussels and negotiate with Merkal

Bizarre statement. Merkel will not overstep her powers. She's German, they follow rules more than we do.

freetrampoline but you don't have to roll over. I doubt many people who signed that petition believe it will trigger a second referendum - I know I don't. I signed it to ally myself with more than 4 million others to signal that I do not agree with Brexit.

Also, why call it 'complaining'? Why not 'campaigning'? If you really do 'hate' the referendum result, do what you can to fight against it. I've signed petitions, written to my MP, written to Theresa May. Would you call that 'complaining'? Do you think the suffragettes were 'complaining'? If only they'd 'rolled over', eh?

Where is the car crash that some people keep talking about? Life is moving forward as normal.

What if 4 million people actually got a second referendum, what do you think would really happen and how do you think that would be better than we have now?

There is a massive different between petitioning your MP to inform them of the will of the people and actually petitioning to overrule the actual will of the people, as expressed overwhelmingly in a legal referendum!