Celebrity Big Brother: is it really racist or 'just' bullying and bitchiness?

[LucyJones]

I'm really not sure where I stand. A lot of it just sems like school girl horridness

imo it was classic "low key" bullying - very insidious - trying to disguise what it actually was. Jade started asking Shilpa about when she lost her virginity. The way in whihc she was asking was premised on Shilpa being different iyswim. It was immediately clear that she didn;t want to answer - any "normal" person would have recognised and respected that. But Jade just kept pushing her. Shilpa - somehwat relunctantly - said something like "well, my first serious relationship was when I was 21" and Jade just can't let it lie "what you mean proper-like? you mean shagging and that" (I paraphrase a bit, but that was the gist) It was just really cringeworthy and really showed Jade to be utterly foul.

mummypenguin, it was ages ago but the thread is moving fast. i wasnted to address your query as to why shilpa had chosen to go onto the show, which you posed as if she somehow had to justify rahter more than any of the other housemates.
i kinda work in this industry(-ish) and i believe that her 'i represent India' comment going in is very revealing. my belief is that when she has been asked to go on, BB will have strongly played up this element, and presented it as a great honour for a Bollywood star to be asked.
fuzzywuzzy, who has family in india, has already said that the indian BB was a very civilised affair with everyone being nice to each other, and i would imagine if the BB production team has sent tapes of BB to encourage her to do the show then they are unlikely to have sent, for example, ones of the mentally ill Shahbaz being abused last year. more likely a lovely chat between sue perkins and mark from take that.

i hardly need add that shilpa would definitely have wanted to join the show to raise her profile, just as every single other person in there did, but to suggest that because she agreed to go on the show she forfeits all human rights (as i believe i have seen people imply on these threads) is ridiculous and offensive.

i saw the question about virginity it was totally out of order to ask such a personal question and even cleo wouldnt answer this .most of us wouldnt dream of asking people.of course the three bitches from eastwick had no compuction about answering

tinkerbelle - you reminded me - it was the question "can you say how old you was" that made me think it was premised on "you (Indians)" - on Shilpa being different. she meant it in a "are you allowed to..." way. it was just bizarre and betrayed such a stunning lack of understanding about what culture even is. let alone what one particular different culture might be like.

Ironically, b/c she has been racially abused, I have a feeling her profile in the UK is going to go through the stratosphere.

Here's hoping she racks up more £££ than Jade every could .

I have seen a few of her films and she's a good actress.

My mother is addicted to the indian version of CBB (hangs head in shame).

Actually the Indian version also has FAMOUS people on it....your not actually going to rip into a famous movie director are you.

I find it curious that people assert that Shilpa has bought this bullying on herself from behaving too self confident, what is she meant to do, hide under the blankets all day until the show's over???

i would think in jades case the other person must of had a very thick carrier bag in his pocket

earlybird, OF COURSE it's as much about class. no-one is saying anything different, surely? but if you start an argument with someone because you are frightened that they are superior to you, and then you try to take them down a peg or two by bitching about their racial origins then there you have a racial element. by which i mean... you are being racist. (one is, not you EB! )

Watched it all last night to see what all the fuss was about. I think it is clear that unlike, say, the BNP, they don't hate Shilpa because she is Indian. Not at all. If she was Asian, chavvy, burped and farted, talked about sex and was rather less attractive, dim and dreadful, they'd probably love her and want her in their gang. Then they'd happily start picking on someone else. Cleo, maybe? Who knows? Someone always gets bullied on Big Brother. Bullying is one of its reasons for existence. Jodie was bullied mercilessly. Someone always cops it. It seems to be what happens when thick, fame-obsessed losers are crammed into a too-small set with no distractions (books, paper and pens, Tv, movies, work). It is a set up specifically and deliberately designed to stress people and generally make them behave like rats in a cage. The three witches clearly hate Shilpa because she is different to them. Yes, she is Indian, but she is also very slender, beautiful, well-educated, assured and poised, graceful, successful and the men like her and respect her. These things make the witches gnash their teeth with rage, frustration and envy. She rubs their noses in what they really are. And they are bored and have no inner life to sustain them. So they try to rebuilt their self-esteem by bullying her. And one of the things they pick on is her race, with sly, sneery, mildly racist comments. One of the Asian commentators on last night's newsnight - lovely Jeremy P absolutely writhing with revulsion at BB, which was bliss - agreed this was not major league racism by any means. They can't attack her for her looks, her ability or her style, so they go for her personality first, her supposed 'stuck-upness' and then, lower down the ranking, her race.
And look at what has happened. More complaints than ever before about any programme ever. Jade, Danielle and Jo are national hate figures. Channel 4 bosses have clearly made the decision to throw Jade to the wolves too, isolating her from her cabal (nearly fell off the sofa to hear Jermaine use the term correctly last night. Amazing to think bonkers former member of Jackson 5 would raise the intellectual temperature so much) and editing the programme to show her in the worst possible light, which admittedly can't be difficult. Being outed as a racist is the worst thing that could happen to anyone wanting a career in the public eye. Her TV dreams are over.
re Jackiey, I honestly think she is more than ignorant. I really think she is not right. I think she is brain damaged in some way, possibly through drink and drugs. She is horrific, but just not right. She reminded me of one of those alcoholic tramps that sometimes lurch out of the shadows and start ranting at passers by in the street.

Oh, and I laughed out loud when as Jade was taking a break from her extraordinary rant, Danielle said, 'Your mother would have been proud of you', which, I think, even made Jade wonder if that was entirely a good thing.

Aitch - agree. The level of ignorance and intolerance in that house is amazing.

Maybe it's edited out, but none of the housemates seem to engage in any of the normal 'getting to know' someone conversations that you'd expect. We don't see them talking about their personal histories/backgrounds - childhood, families, etc. (other than the 'when did you lose your virginity' topic). I, for one, would be fascinated to hear Shilpa talk about where she comes from, how she lives, what the Indian culture is like and how it's different to what we know. It would be great to get Jermaine reminiscing about the Jackson 5 - bet he's got some good stories to tell. But we hear little of that....seems to me they'd want to speak about something other than bitching about each other endlessly.

Nail on head aloha

absolutely agree, aloha, although to clarify, being 'mildly' racist (as opposed to a card carrying member or the NF) is still not on and still racism.

re: jackiey... interesting one. i completely agree that she's mentally compromised, for whatever reason. i also think that she behaved in a racist manne to shilpa. but what i find interesting is that Jade must know how erratic her mother is, and while she is no doubt inured to much of her behaviour, she must have realised that her mother might come off very badly.

I agree that they do not hate her because she is Indian, BUT I think that some of the stuff that comes out because of hatred based on the things you have identified, Aloha, IS racist...it is as if they have only the bluntest, crudest weapons in their pathetic arsenal and that racist comments are included in that. As Germaine Greer said in the Guardian yesterday.

Aloha - absolutely agree with all of that.

Interesting that Ken Russell said on BBLB that he thought that Jackiey was 'brain-damaged' which Dermot was horrified at. He said 'You can't die for 9 hours and not be damaged' - Jackiey told him that she 'died' for the length of time following her motor cycle accident.

For myself, I think she is just completely ignorant and ill-mannered and one of those ever growing number of people these days who have a kind of 'who do you think you are' mentality to anyone who is dignified, confident, prettier, wealthier or more successful than they are.

i also love the 'at least i'm honest and i'll say it to your face' brigade.
i'm with shilpa... where i come from that's just rude.

Where I come from, that oftentimes can get you shot.

very interesting what Ken Russell said about Jackie.
And LOL at what danielle said about Jade's mother being proud. It is a wonder that Danielle's brain works efficiently enough to keep her breathing.

It has occured to me to wonder why we haven't heard Jackiey being interviewed to defend Jade's (and indeed her own) behaviour toward Shilpa. I imagine she'd be more than willing to comment at length if asked. Do you think Channel 4/Endemol are keeping her out of the spotlight because they know her inevitably inflammatory comments would make things much worse?

Hence, Jermaine's comment to Shilpa about Jade's going off like that, 'If she were from the US, she would have been shut up a lllooonnnggg time ago.'

i think that jade overlooked her mother's instability, for two reasons.. a misguided attempt to make more money for herself, and a misguided attempt to let her mother in on the act.

good point aloha, last year jodie was picked on because she was a chav and they all thought they were better than her this year its the chavs doing the bullying. and if it was them that were the educated ones and she was the chav they would still pick on her but the public wouldnt be able to pick on them for their lack of class.

a lot of mums on this site are middle class with good jobs and backgrounds and you do get a lot of chav bashing on this site, a lot of shilpas defence on here seems to be she is educated well spoken etc ie like you, how come last year when jodie was bullied there wasnt this amount of defence for her was it because she was white and common?

I know what my reaction will be if someone comes to our house for a meal and they mutter to another guest that they don't like to eat the food because my DP might have touched it...as one of the housemates said about Shilpa's cooking the other night, following the 'they eat with their hands' business and 'you never know where they've been' comments two days before about cooking and eating in India.

Sounds a lot like racism to me.

Yes earlybid she's the last person you'd want to put forward when it's reached the burning effigies in the street stage! 5 mins of Jackeeeiy on Tv now could move the doomsday clock to midnight!

Dot - I think Jade overlooks her mother's instability because to her, that's normal behaviour. It's all she's ever known..,.