Labour and anti-semitism

[LeLaluifleur]

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

Thanks, Sam. It was a long time ago I read about it, and I wondered if I remembered it entirely correctly. Actually, now I think about it, could it be that Sephardic Jews have tended over time to have more children than the Ashkenazi? However, I think my general point still stands, which is that the group who suffered in the Holocaust are not identical to the group who are most Hawkish in their voting, and that those who blame the former for the latter are showing their ignorance.

And your other point has occurred to me, too - that Sephardic Jews having a greater knowledge of Arab culture and majority views, has contributed to make them less inclined to be optimistic about having Arab countries as immediate neighbours without a buffer zone.

Helmet I don't see this conversation going anywhere
I can't copy and paste your comments on this iPad so I can't post your exaggerated parodies and extremely OTT conflations of my actual comments into half page bullet points with your made up interpretations of my actual words with your made up interpretations of my thought patterns
You are arguing with a parody that already exists in your head
Not me

The confused for Muslim attack happened to my partner at the time which is why I mentioned it
does that make me some kind of racist monster as you have portrayed me??
I think you need to apologise

B and C are where I asked you not to use the fake attacks (which you can google ) as examples because it delegitimises real attacks, you then tried to say that I had said that all the attacks were fake, that was a blatant lie and disgusting IMO
You are far from cool and far from having any high ground here

Anyway I'm out
nice welcome to my first day on Mumsnet

I didn't say these events didn't happen. I just wonder why you are so repeatedly keen to diminish and deny anti-semitism.

You did see that children were killed outside a Jewish school, did you? You said that I was including 'fake events'.

No response on that, then?

derailment, denial and minimising. Sound familiar?

La plus ca change

Just a tip, Florian, but when you post on a new forum for the first time, the Israeli-Palestininan issue probably isn't the best one to start with.

Kesstrel's posts are as interesting as ever.

Helmet & Bea, thank you for your early posts highlighting the usual obfuscations of Bertrand et al. You do not exaggerate when you attest to their posting behaviour in these matters. It sickens me how anti- Semitic Mumsnet is.

i object very strongly to the accusation that I am anti Semitic. Please show me where I have been.

Are you 'Mumsnet' Bernard?

Bertrand I notice you referred to "the Jewish lobby" in the U.S. earlier. Surely you meant the Zionist lobby? This is one of the things that bothers me, that people sometimes seem to slip too readily from one term to another, whilst all the while insisting that they absolutely know there is a difference between Jewish people and Zionists,

No. With reference to the American electorate, mean "the Jewish lobby"

TheNewStwtesman. You have accused me of being anti Semitic. Please give examples. If you choose not to, I will report you to MNHQ and let them decide.

Why?

At least 3 of Florian's posts have been deleted

At least 3 of Florian's posts have been deleted

Ooops! Sorry...

Because my understanding was that it was a more accurate term than Israeli or Zionist lobby- not all Jewish people are Zionists

However, I now read that it is a term to be avoided because it sounds too similar to terms used by the nut-job conspiracy theorists.

So I retract it wholeheartedly and won't use it again.

Wow. One hopes MNHQ will come and explain that extraordinary decision.

Thank you for hanging in there Helmet, i appreciate your posts as well as many others and have a tiny bit more of an understanding of some of the issues maybe. Talking about a sensitive issue such as on this thread, I find it so important to try and be open and challenge views with facts not opinions and ideology, which is what florian was not. She sounded also quite confused and her posts seemed to be a bit muddled up.

How can there ever be any peace anywhere if humans --even on MN- don't try their hardest to discuss tricky stuff in as rational and open a way as possible? Talking about emotions can be part it as in when people explain how they feel about topics. Sorry I am not the thread police which is why i ignore the growing bun fight above but the topic is contentious enough without emotional keyboard warriors derailing this thread.

The topic on this thread is important to me because I get incensed by one track ideological thinking, which i worry elements of the Labour party are doing by refusing to openly discuss anti-semitic tendencies. There are other topics Labour are not clear enough on such as women's rights in the context of cultural minorities but that's for another thread.

"He (Piers Corbyn) went on: “All Corbyns are committed antiNazi. Zionists can’t cope with anyone supporting rights for Palestine.”

"Piers Corbyn had both shoe-horned Israel into a discussion of anti-Semitism and belittled the idea that it needed to be tackled. "

"On Tuesday, for example, it was revealed activists within Mrs Ellman’s local Labour Party have been targeting her. For no other reason than she is Jewish.One non-Jewish member of her party for over 40 years said that when he had defended Mrs Ellman from anti-Semitic abuse at a meeting he was physically threatened."

Former lord mayor of Bradford Khadim Hussain was suspended after attacking Holocaust education in schools “and the six million Zionists that were killed”.

"anti-Semitic behaviour by members of the Oxford University Labour Club, such as singing about “rockets over Tel Aviv” and bullying Jewish students."

"Yes, Downing has been expelled from the party and Kirby suspended. But they are the tip of an iceberg. And the Labour leader refuses to dig any deeper."

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/659526/Jeremy-Corbyn-anti-Semitism-Labour-party-Piers-Corbyn-Gerry-Downing-Vicki-Kirby

Most shocked right now about "Piers Corbyn had both shoe-horned Israel into a discussion of anti-Semitism and belittled the idea that it needed to be tackled. "

and J Corbyn's response that he agrees with his brother. way to go Corbyn. not

To address specifically the question of whether anti-semitism is rising in the Uk the answer sadly is an absolute yes. This below is taken from a news article in the London Evening Standard from December (link below)

"In February, it was reported anti-semitic hate crimes reached a record level in the UK with London experiencing the biggest increase in offences.

Figures published the Community Security Trust (CST) showed hate crimes against Jewish people rose by 137 per cent to 583 incidents last year."

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/thousands-back-call-for-armed-security-outside-jewish-schools-and-synagogues-a3135876.html

How tragic that in the UK, Jewish schools have to be patrolled by armed guards. As far as I know Jeremy Corbyn hasn't said a single word to address the recent behaviour by members of his party. Am I wrong about that?