Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Labour and anti-semitism

999 replies

LeLaluifleur · 10/04/2016 09:15

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

Shock Sad

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 11/04/2016 12:59

You've reported my remarks? Thats funny.

Then I shall report yours. Grin

Oh and this:
Helmet, if you are going to refer to a swathe of attacks don't use examples of people faking it that's all
It delegitimises real events

How were they faked? You don't believe people were killed in a Jewish supermarket, outside a Jewish museum and outside a Jewish school?

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:02

Two comments from Florian, about a page apart:

Don't do the whataboutery dance

Have you not noticed all the racism recently from UKIP etc, lots of candidates have had to apologise and stand down for Racisim, quite rightly.

Grin
florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:06

I was referring to the Teacher at the School who faked an attack
There were three incidents of faked attacks recently and two were in schools
Obviously not the fatalities and I never denied those as you well know
I'm not going to continue to engage with you as I don't find you an honest communicator, you are continually putting words in my mouth that I have no way said, suggested or implied
I'm going to have a cup of tea and I suggest you calm down and don't try and create unnecessary and over the top arguments with your imaginary statements

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:08

kesstrel that was a relevant comment re
Acting to the subject
Whhataboutery is a specific propaganda technique , look it up

Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/04/2016 13:10

If it wasn’t for my man Hitler these Jews would’ve wiped Palestine years ago

My man Hitler? Oh dear ...

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:14

and that as victims of inhumane crimes they are expected not to inflict inhumane treatment on other ethnic groups..

Lafleur I saw that very comment made by a far-left poster under one of the Guardian articles.

The irony of that is that I have read that a big reason why Israel's governments have moved further and further rightward is because the Ashkenazi (European) Jews, with their originally strong leftish beliefs, have been gradually decreasing as a proportion of the population, due to the slow influx of Sephardic Jews moving primarily from Arab countries.

I will just add that I saw the unmoderated comments beneath Nick Cohen's article before the moderators had time to delete them. Many of them were quite horrifying, and clearly from left-wing posters.

Helmetbymidnight · 11/04/2016 13:15

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313

Oh I see - faked.

Best not to communicate with me, I find your comments racist or dim. I can't quite decide.

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:16

Florian You don't need to tell me what whataboutery is. You were quite clearly engaging in it, by asking "What about Ukip antisemitism?", whilst condemning others for asking "What about Muslim antisemitism?" (of whom there are many in the :Labour party, so that is NOT irrelevant).

Izlet · 11/04/2016 13:21

Labour IMO have lost their way and often end up contradicting themselves and tying themselves up in knots in a never ending quest to support the "downtrodden du jour", as well as a less noble quest to secure votes at any cost. An example of this the the pandering to the Muslim electorate as mentioned by a pp, where Labour have on a number of occasions turned a blind eye to blatant anti-semitism, both internally as illustrated up thread and by this article which is one of many such instances, and by the support for anti-Semitic organisations such as Hezbollah, Hamas etc.

This bending over backwards to appease a certain electorate (despite the fact said electorate's views don't and never will chime with Labour's views on equality) has led the party to lose sight of the anti discrimination laws it brought in. A clamourous case in point is the attending and sanctioning of segregated meetings, where women had separate seating and a separate entrance. This should have been ushered out with the Sex Discrimination Act of 1975, never to return.

Labour needs to take a good look at itself and decide on a doctrine as they have picked up too many threads and created an almighty knot. Some if it's MPs also need a masterclass on the equality and anti discrimination concepts that underpin Labour's ethos. It's all very well condemning the Tory govt support for KSA but there should be just as much vocal condemnation when local Labour councillors are carrying out the same apartheid and abuse of human rights under their very noses. Hiding behind calls of racist to avoid uncomfortable debate is no longer acceptable.

BertrandRussell · 11/04/2016 13:25

Helmet- do you actually want to discuss the topic or not?

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:26

I really hope Mumsnet doesn't delete any of Florian's comments. They are a fantastic illustration of the problem being denied.

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:28

Bertrand Who elected you policewoman of the thread? Helmet's comments have been entirely to the point, IMO.

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:33

Why would anyone delete my comments?
I stated that I think rising Hate Crime is real and is a massive problem that needs to be tackled as a whole
What is delectable about that.
Is there some kind of mums et clique that bullies people who don't tow the line here?
Sure seems like it

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:35

Sorry iPad is losing battery power / typos

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BertrandRussell · 11/04/2016 13:37

I'd really like to discuss this properly, but as usual it's been made impossible. What a shame.

kesstrel · 11/04/2016 13:39

Florian You said: Also just because I don't buy into the obvious implication that all "Muslims are crazy and dangerous Hitler loving terrorists who want to rape our children and take over Europe"

And you claim you haven't misrepresented anyone's posts?

Helmetbymidnight · 11/04/2016 13:40

I'm cool with it all, Bertand!

I am fully aware that when some people move off from the exact question in the thread to say. 'Is anti-semitism rising in the UK?' or 'what about the Tories/UKIP?' that's regarded as a really rather nice digression, but when others do it, it is 'whataboutery' a filthy Zionist propaganda technique.

I agree Kesstrel, I think Florian's comments demonstrate the Labour attitude - and subsequent problem - in a nutshell.

LeLaluifleur · 11/04/2016 13:41

" read that a big reason why Israel's governments have moved further and further rightward is because the Ashkenazi (European) Jews, with their originally strong leftish beliefs, have been gradually decreasing as a proportion of the population, due to the slow influx of Sephardic Jews moving primarily from Arab countries. "
interesting kesstrel i was not aware of this.

"This bending over backwards to appease a certain electorate (despite the fact said electorate's views don't and never will chime with Labour's views on equality) has led the party to lose sight of the anti discrimination laws it brought in. A clamourous case in point is the attending and sanctioning of segregated meetings, where women had separate seating and a separate entrance. This should have been ushered out with the Sex Discrimination Act of 1975, never to return."

deeply worrying indeed

OP posts:
Woodhill · 11/04/2016 13:45

Certain members of the Moslem community don't like other Moslems let alone any other religion. That poor man murdered in Glasgow. It is very worrying. Equality not more like trampling over everyone else. Jeremy Corbin needs to sort out his party.

samG76 · 11/04/2016 13:52

Kesstel - the point about Sephardim is very questionable. There's been no "slow influx" of Sephardim, as almost all Arab countries had ethnically cleansed their Jewish communities by 1967 (honourable exceptions - Morocco and Tunisia). What there has been is a rise in identity politics, with a party, Shas, dedicated to representing Sephardi interests.

One reason why the Sephardim may be hawkish is that they or their families have lived in Arab countries for years, whereas Ashkenazim generally haven't, and so have more of an idealised view of the possibility of coexistence. But of course it was the right wing Likud in charge when they signed the peace treaty with Egypt, so difficult to generalize.

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:52

Whattaboutery is Russian not Zionist specifically
UKIP were not anti Semitic sackings but about how to deal with disciplining racists in the party, not whattaboutery at all, I said that they did the right thing in sacking Racists
And now Helmet is continuing to insult me and throw personal accusations/ insults
That's not debate it's bullying

florianblossom · 11/04/2016 13:56

Kestrel I did not state or imply that that was what anyone on this board had said, that is the difference
I am aware that some people use these boards for personal agendas and I didn't want it to decend into a race hate thread because that would be pretty disgusting IMO
but my guess is that by tommorow it will have descended to that level

Helmetbymidnight · 11/04/2016 14:09

Helmet has blatantly LIED about what I have said, quite shamelessly
Where?

When told of rising anti-semitism, your response was to counter with stories of:
a. A case where the attackers actually thought the victim was Muslim. ie. not real anti-semitism
b. A case where an attack was faked. ie. not real anti-semitism
c. A case where Jewish people attacked other Jewish people. ie. not real anti-semitism.
And when I told you about attacks on Jewish children outside a school in Europe you wouldn't accept them and actually said including fake attacks deligitimises real events. I have posted a link and I think you'll agree it's perfectly true.

I await your apology.

Swipe left for the next trending thread