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Original poster

investigate 9/11

1000 replies

BeetrootsResolution · 30/12/2006 12:39

My uncle sent me this and thought it was an appropriate time to share it with you

The Truth?

OP posts:
JoolsToo · 31/12/2006 15:16

do you need to carry a passport for an internal flight?

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:17

The papers in the street would have been from offices unaffected by the fires, not in the pocket of a passenger in the middle of the fire.

ludaloosDH · 31/12/2006 15:17

the bits of paper seen flying around were from office files and desks.
A terrorists passport would of been on the plane 70 storeys up at the point of impact....

JoolsToo · 31/12/2006 15:17

and where's beety?

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:18

See the point about a card from the pocket of one of the passengers.

ludaloosDH · 31/12/2006 15:20

was the card intact?

WideWebWitch · 31/12/2006 15:20

Great thread, I'm with mb on this (altohugh I LOVE a good conspiracy theory) but this is fab afternoon reading!

JoolsToo · 31/12/2006 15:21

it's what mn is all about for me.

a bloody good debate!

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:22

Hang on - I'll see if I can find it again...

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:23

I have, RubberDucky; but the rubble was not sorted on site, it was scooped up and taken away by the truck-load.

The parents were told (who by?) it was found near her hipbone and infer it survived in her pocket but who knows.

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:23

Here you go

The story about the girl's card (copy and pasted) is:

""Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects"."

fortyplus · 31/12/2006 15:24

I know it's a different situation but loads of personal effects survived the Lockerbie bomb - although of course the plane was blown up at thousands of feet and then fell to earth.

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:24

Also, a passenger's drivers license was recovered from flight 77.

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:25

JoolsToo - it's been AGES since a proper debate, hasn't it?! Although it's killed all my productivity today - I was supposed to get so much done before dh goes back to work on Tuesday

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:26

www, I have been glued to this now for most of yesterday and today, I've done nothing, it's almost as good as Judge Flounce!

Do read this piece by "a former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX" who also "served as chief economist for the US Department of Labor during 2001?2, George W. Bush's first term."

Never mind whether or not he's an engineer or a physicist, he knows stuff about US governments (esp this one)

bettythebuilder · 31/12/2006 15:26

I didn't think passports were needed for US internal flights in those days..they were like buses, required V little ID to board (also flew with relatively low Pax loads). Would need a passport if conecting with an international flight, though.

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:26

The passport wasn't recovered by the trucks, either:

"The passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from a male passerby in a business suit, about 30 years old. The passerby left before being identified, while debris was falling from WTC 2. The tower collapsed shortly afterwards. The detective then gave the passport to the FBI on 9/11.
Page 40
www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf"

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:27

They found the hipbone in Sept and the plastic card in February. Not that near, then.

ludaloosDH · 31/12/2006 15:27

hmm...feasable they could of been found...but what about the terrorists that are still alive?
It wasn't stated in the investigations exactly how they come to be alive

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:29

"The passerby left before being identified" - how convenient!

It wasn't found in the rubble because it wasn't on the plane - it was planted, several blocks away (possibly by the unidentified passer-by?)

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:29

Two pieces of mail also survived the planes that crashed into the towers:

"On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound
New York Times
December 20, 2001"

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:30

Jan - follow the link - there's a photograph of where debris was - it wasn't unlikely that it would have been just lying around. If I'd seen a passport (an obviously important piece of documentation), I'd probably have picked it up and handed it to the nearest copper too...

PartridgeinaRustyBearTree · 31/12/2006 15:36

"By ludaloo on Sun 31-Dec-06 13:06:43
Also WTC7 collapses too fast and in too uniform a pattern, if you visit www.wtc7.net and watch the collapse videos the building takes approx 12 secs to completley implode in on its self. Surely the laws of Physics and Logic wont allow this to happen. .....
WTC7 is the key, because this building was not destroyed by fire or terrorists or impact damage from WTC1. This building was destroyed by the American Administration."

So the American Administration have found out how to suspend the laws of Physics?

JanH · 31/12/2006 15:37

Which page is the passport bit on, rubberducky? It's so long I can't find it.

RubberDuckWithCranberrySauce · 31/12/2006 15:39

Passport page - it's just one page, isn't it? (well apart from links down the side) Photo of debris is the only one on the page about half way down.

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