Cologne Sexual Assaults IX and David Davies Web Chat

[LumelaMme]

On New Year's Eve women in Cologne were amongst those who were sexually assaulted and robbed in mass attacks.
This is a link to the last thread which has links to all the others.

Some of us have begun a petition asking the government to uphold women's rights and freedoms:

THE PETITION _ Please sign and share
The petition

We also hope that tomorrow, Monday 8th February, David TC Davies MP will be on MN for a web chat between 1pm and 2pm - it should be a sticky on either Chat or In The News. David was one of the few MPs who has shown any interest in this whole issue and who has responded sympathetically to those of us concerned about women's rights in a changing world.

It seems the perpetrators were the manager and players of a team representing a 'North African country': Adult boss 'groped girls' at Swedish kids' football cup

Supersoft, I looked after my niece after she was victim of a grooming gang so don't tell me I don't care, it doesn't wash. Neither does painting yourself as concerned about women's issues whilst using phrases like the ' creepy lslamisation of European culture.' Islam is part of Europeean culture sweetheart and has been for a very long time. Slobodan Milosevic and Radovsn Karadicz used language similar to yours to stir up nationalism and propagate the myth that their region was meant to be non Muslim. They were both prosecuted in the Hague not long ago.

There is no Sharia law being used in the UK or European countries either, more scaremongering supersoft.

Sharia courts in UK:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Sharia_Council

Have a read, I expect there will be some in France too.

It is possible to disagree with some of the tenets of a religion without resorting to any kind of violence. I disagree with a lot of Catholicism however I can do this and not feel the remotest urge to go down the Catholic cathedral in town and open fire (wouldn't know where to get a gun anyhow!).

You have just applied the same generalisation in reverse. There are many Muslims who disagree with aspects of western culture and possibly Christianity, however only a fraction of them get a gun and use it in the name of this. It would be like saying all mentally ill people are a danger.

There are many well known ex-Muslims who are critical of the religion, are they possible right wing extremists too?

Excellent post, unfortunately many thaings we find unpalatable are all too real, but the best way is to acknowledge them and find solutions, not pretend it doesn't exist in the hope that it will do away!

I couldn't agree more sporting. Well said,

For me, the problem lies mainly with the collective complacency, self-loathing and cowardice of those of the Politically Correct, Left Wing persuasion.

They diagnose societal symptoms far too simplistically and, largely just by calling anyone who challenges their infantile world view as ' scaremongering, bigots, racists, Islamophobic, and anything else - phobic or - ist that their imaginations allow.

Their stock response to anyone looking to discuss honestly and frankly the very real threat that free, liberal societies face from the growing influence of Shariah law, and the appallingly oppressive and intolerant Islamic attitudes to women and free speech being practiced here as well as in the muslim world. The Islamist terrorism which is growing daily in here in The West – will always be --"Stop it - you're scaremongering. Everyone knows that If we're nice and accepting of them, then they won't want to rape and murder us".

It's ironic how they pretend to champion religious tolerance while ignoring the appalling social injustices embedded in Islam. But label anyone prepared to ask questions about this as “hateful”.

I reject and oppose Sharia law totally, and not because it's "other" or because I've internalised "Orientalism". I object to Sharia law as it is barbaric. Plain and simply. I feel it's perfectly fair and reasonable to recognise that certain beliefs in Islam are terrible and dangerous, such as the belief that apostasy is punishable by death. I feel it's reasonable too to recognise that the oppression of gay people, women, and freethinkers is prevalent in Muslim countries, and it's prevalent because of the doctrines of Islam.

But as you've witness by my deleted posts on this thread, it has become taboo to say this.

Supersoft you have written some excellent posts on here.

I very much agree with you.

Esp this "It's ironic how they pretend to champion religious tolerance while ignoring the appalling social injustices embedded in Islam. But label anyone prepared to ask questions about this as “hateful”.

If things like the magdalene laundries were still going on we would very much be talking about it all.
As a Catholic I would welcome it. I wouldn't be defensive, i would feel ashamed actually and understand the revulsion.

I suppose however now we have got a point of being a very open society where we talk and discuss everything, is yet another clash we have with more closed societies where it barred to talk about some issues.

But we are in the liberal west and we are allowed free speech.
Speak on.

Thank you AMouse. It's interesting you mention catholicism actually.

As an ex-muslim woman, a mother of two girls and having lived in a muslim culture. I have no absolutely no hesitation or fear of stating loudly and clearly - that - yes, I am flipping terrified of the Islamification of British society and the creeping reality of Sharia law. I can't express enough just how grateful, lucky and proud I am to live in a country now that is liberal, democratic, gender equal, free and fair. Where we take for granted the types of freedoms that people in the muslim cultures couldn't even allow themselves to dream of. I would gladly fight, if need be, to preserve these liberties and defend the achievements of Western Culture.

I'm can't honestly say I'm sorry if my words offend any of the so called "progressives" among us, for whom the dismantling of Western culture seems to be their goal. By offering support and succour to Islamists and their vile intolerant doctrines. But if we are to preserve Western culture from Islamic totalitarianism, it has to be done.

I hope that if the Islamic world has any understanding of what people mean when they talk about human rights. It is forced to acknowledge, apologise publicly - repeatedly and pay compensation to the girls/women/men and boys who's lives it has destroyed , is systematically destroying and also expresses its shame over what its deranged advocates are doing to innocent people all over the world, whose lives it disproves of. Just as the catholic church is doing to those it abused and whose lives they ruined.

Anyway it's a beautiful day out there and the way things are going - who knows how many more we have to enjoy? TTFN

The reason why I disagree with Sharia law is that we already have a perfectly good legal system and further complicating that with merging it with another which only applies to a small fraction of the population is not really something that is a great need. The legal system here covers everybody and most situations.

Openess is the way forward, we need to be able to discuss all issues. Everyone of every faith and none should be able to discuss issues without being afraid and with the expectation of being listened to and in turn listening.

Hear hear, good points, well said sporting.

I would add that UK domestic law (though it has it's faults obviously) has nothing to do with religion, or anyone's 'piety' and very rarely makes reference to what may or may not have happened 1400 years ago.

Sharia Law in Greece: This exists in the Region of Western Thrace. I first became aware of this from people who live there. The article on Wikipedia says:

"Under the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, Sharia regulates marriage, divorce, custody of children and inheritance for Muslims who reside in Western Thrace; the treaty also allows for the establishment of auqaf.[164] Muslim can alternatively choose a civil marriage and take their cases to civil court.[164] The question of the use of Sharia in Greece is the subject of recent[when?] judicial review."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Islamic_law_by_country

Also you will find in the Guardian the story of a Greek muslim woman who took her case to European Court:
Muslim woman tries to close Thrace’s sharia inheritance law loophole
Quite interesting story but I have not followed recent developments.

www.theguardian.com/law/2015/apr/10/sharia-greece-human-rights-inheritance-law

Interesting post MariscallRoad.

It's influence is growing - no question. I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I honestly think that a significant number of people (apart from Islamist extremists) who actually wish our our values of liberalism, equality, rule of law etc to die.

Where there is a perfectly good legal framework within a country which is based on fairness and equality, both in domestic issues and criminal issues there should be no need for any religious ones catering for a fraction of the populace and even more so if they are weighted in an unequal way to one gender etc.

If where there is majority will for it they decide to introduce it (abroad) we don't really have a say in that, it being the internal affairs of another nation. Although not all nations which have Muslim majorities want it either.

I know the discussion has moved on to more general topics, but just read that a 79-year-old woman was raped by an Eritrean asylum seeker at a cemetery in North Rhine-Westphalia (sorry, could only find a German link).

Also watched a news report earlier that shows again how Germany still isn't properly addressing the problem of women being sexually harassed by groups of men. Cologne style incidents continue to happen all over the country but even the victims don't want to make too much of a fuss so nobody will think they hold right-wing views. Utterly depressing. Here's the link for those of you who speak German.

It's utterly sick and disgraceful. But what did the idiot Merkel expect pourmeanotherdrink? Fling the nations doors open to mainly a million and a half young, fighting age men, that come from theocratic Islamic societies completely antithetical to Germany and ours and this is what you get. I suspect she won't be there in a couple of years....

They aren't keen on nudism or water skiing either apparently...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3710274/Gang-Muslims-storm-nudist-pool-Germany-yelling-Allahu-Akbar-threatening-exterminate-women-sluts.html

Refugee ‘rapes pensioner, 79, in German cemetery while she visited sister's grave’

I can't believe a professional swimming association in Germany has suggested training migrants to become lifeguards to stop escalating sex attacks committed by refugees. Apparently its 'an inclusive measure that would benefit everyone'.

Wtf??

Tahharush Gamea seems to be increasing across those countries with large numbers of recently arrived immigrants.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3673304/At-35-girls-aged-12-17-sexually-assaulted-foreign-youths-Swedish-music-festival-scenes-similar-Cologne-New-Year-attacks.html

There have also been reports of this vile behaviour at swimming pools, football matches and of course on the streets of Germany.

The K12 can confirm a surge in sex crimes at these establishments.

"In particular rape and the sexual abuse of children in bathing establishments have given us grave cause for concern. The perpetrators are, for the most part, immigrants."

The authenticity of the report has been confirmed by authorities in Dusseldorf.

During the latest incident at the nudist pool, the men called the women sluts and threatened to 'eradicate' them.

I suppose these attacks are nothing to do with these men's religion or culture either, it's just all a great big coincidence.

Well I've known quite a few British friends who have gone to nudist beaches abroad (some by accident) and whilst they were a little surprised and felt a bit "British" (embarassed) they certainly did not feel the urge to shout things. Considering that most of the Muslim people round here consider that showing ones arms (especially if female) is taboo, certainly full nudity is not something they are used or consider ok. However as I understand it, it was in an event specifically for this purpose and all participating would have attended for this express reason. They really need to consider that we are not living in a majority Muslim culture in which theirs is the overiding norm.

As regards the teaching them to be lifeguards, since most cannot swim it is not going to happen very easily as it takes years to train to the standard required. I hold all my life saving medals, plus red cross and teaching certificates, all of which took me years to get, plus the experience of working doing that sort of thing. This is not a solution. Also they would need to pass safeguarding which would require them to 'prove' themselves over a long period of time.

The pensioner attack in Germany is just sick and horrible. I don't know what goes through their minds on that occaision.

"Migrant who entered UK illegally raped woman on her morning commute after being allowed to stay"
link1
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food for thought from a Syrian professor living in Germany.