Cologne Sexual Assaults IX and David Davies Web Chat

[LumelaMme]

On New Year's Eve women in Cologne were amongst those who were sexually assaulted and robbed in mass attacks.
This is a link to the last thread which has links to all the others.

Some of us have begun a petition asking the government to uphold women's rights and freedoms:

THE PETITION _ Please sign and share
The petition

We also hope that tomorrow, Monday 8th February, David TC Davies MP will be on MN for a web chat between 1pm and 2pm - it should be a sticky on either Chat or In The News. David was one of the few MPs who has shown any interest in this whole issue and who has responded sympathetically to those of us concerned about women's rights in a changing world.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/

Estimates have been substantially revised--upwards.

Jesus, the scale of this is almost unimaginable. How can those women ever feel safe in crowds again, especially with the majority of the assailants still out there. It's only a matter of time until the next one

Another Cologne victim speaks out, the poor girl had to have an abortion
link
In front of a busy train station, surrounded by onlookers and metres from the Police, almost unbelieveable

It appears that a culture clash has happened in this case. But why should girls and women who are in Western Europe modify their dress to suit the cultural norms of those who come from another? After all we would accept if we went to a majority Muslim country it would be unacceptable to either complain about the dress there or dress inappropriately in those countries.

metro.co.uk/2016/07/19/mother-and-three-daughters-stabbed-in-french-resort-for-being-scantily-dressed-6016072/

I live in a majority Muslim area and whilst I've not faced any issues with the way I dress yet it makes me nervous to think that anyone could take exception to it and attack me. I don't go out to Asda in a bikini but obvious in summer I tend to wear strappy dresses and shorter skirts because I want to feel comfortable. And whilst I don't think the large majority of my neighbours have much of an issue with the way others choose to dress it is clearly becoming an issue for some. None of them have refused to speak to me because I'm not veiled and some of them don't veil either so not sure why TM thought she had to.

Maybe you should ask her sporting? I did, but got no response.

It is strange, unless they actually requested it. Many Muslims do not expect us to conform to their standards unless visiting a Muslim majority country perhaps. I think TM was perhaps trying to make a point. But it's actually one that is not actually required or relevant. It actually makes more of a point regarding her, than them.

It may not just be the men who disapprove of how women dress, articles from last year
link
link

Horrifying. But when you have Imams telling men that women who dont cover themselves up in public are no better than exposed meat www.theguardian.com/world/2006/oct/26/australia.marktran, its really no surprise this has rubbed off on women themselves.

It is insulting to both men and women to say that men are incapable of self control and that women should compulsorily be told what they can wear. Women have legs, arms, hair and faces this is not big news, so do men. By covering to the nth degree we actually sexualise and repress further so the sight of what is a normal amount of the person becomes seen as something forbidden.

I couldn't agree more.

Supersoft, the first part of your comment is horrendous.

At least many Muslim people themselves were challenging this man's view and refuting it. They at least realise that this is not the way to promote good relations between communities.

Emily

I find almost everything you post horrendous.

From your no borders political stance to the way you minimise attacks on women by certain sections of the population.

Virtually the second one of these threads appears you are straight in with defection tactics.

Quite shameful really.

I find it horrendous that 1200 women were assaulted across Germany on New Year's Eve. Even more horrendous that at least 2000 men are thought to have taken part.

It is horrendous WeMust. That doesn't mean that that makes it ok to say horrible things about Muslims or how politicians choose to communicate with them. The choice of words in supersoft's statement is awful and odd for someone supposedly concerned about women's welfare.

I have read much of this thread but not all but find this all terrifying.

I wanted to share something I noted recently local to me (UK, south east) which whilst a much much smaller incident is of relevance due to the way in which the media reported the incident.

Some of my friends shared a Facebook post from someone I don't know who was reporting that three of her siblings had been followed in the local swimming pool changing area and an attempt made by the men to get into a changing cubicle and to look over the top of another changing cubicle and had phones out (I guess the assumption was to film or take photos). I don't know the family involved but didn't see any reason not to believe this happened. It was shared nearly 2,000 times on Facebook.

The same story was reported in the local paper about a week later. Many of the details were obviously lifted directly from her Facebook post but it omitted her description ('three Somalian looking men').

It also reported that the leisure centre manager stated that the incident had been blown out of proportion, referred to the perpetrators as 'three boys', (not men) that the leisure centre had themselves looked at the phones (isn't this a job for the police?) and found nothing and that the police had closed the case down.

Emily it can't be denied that there was a cultural element to these attacks. You don't want to discuss this ever. Do you really think these events were horrendous? As far as I can see you only ever come in here to rebuke criticism of Islam and derail the threads, no other discussion. It's clear that, for you, the demographics of the attackers trumps that of the victims. I must admit I find this abhorrent considering that you are a woman with (I think) a DD. If we want to stop this happening again, we need to look at why these men felt entitled to attack 1200 women. I know it's inconvenient for you, but for many of them, their culture as well as them being able to get into Germany unchecked in the first place were major factors.

Well as we know, as well as the cologne sex attacks (and those that took place in many other towns and cities that fateful night) there have been numerous sexual assaults and violent rapes of women and children in swimming pools in Germany and Austria yet somehow some numpty thinks it would be a great idea to train the non English speaking, non swimming immigrants to become lifeguards. So many immigrant men think bare flesh is an invitation to rape and this is what they come up with. You couldn't make it up.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3701385/Migrants-trained-German-pool-lifeguards-leaked-Dusseldorf-memo-reduce-sex-attacks.html

We must, none of you have objected to the phrase in the first part of his/her post. It had bugger all to do with discussing anything in a reasonable way, it is a nasty turn of phrase and shows a nasty attitude toward Muslims. Containing about hatred and misogyny what being hateful and misogynistic is counterproductive.

I made countless comments previously on what can done to address the issues. I got an array of responses, including 'wait until your daughter is raped.'

Emily, I find almost everything you post horrendous. From your no borders political stance to the way you minimise attacks on women by certain sections of the population.

I concur, your views are anti-West and sympathy is with perpetrators. You trot out the usual lipservice where the Cologne attacks are concerned. I have never read you condemning or conveying on any thread a genuine disgust with the practices and beliefs that cause some men to believe it's no big thing to do whatever they want to a stranger going about her business.

I don't think that would work Partially if they cannot swim or speak German to sufficient standard it would not be fair on either party to just put them in there. It takes years to come from non swimmer to life guard standard - I have all my RLSS badges and it took me years - it is not something can be done quickly, by all means train any that show aptitude and responsibility but with time, do it properly.

In the meantime any migrant found violating the law needs to be prosecuted and face the same penalties any German would face if caught doing the same thing.

Our local pool bans all phones from the pool area, but if that happens repeatedly they might have to say that phones will have to be left with the front desk to stop this.

Sometimes I think that the invetion of smartphones can be more of a curse than a blessing!

Supersoft - Excellent post. When entering a place of prayer it is customary to put a head covering on. It is headscarves for some Christians, as you know so TM conducted herself properly. However, what rankled in my household is that this mindful gesture tends to be one-way.

I know of two cases where it has been exceptionally difficult to get a Muslim cleric to visit churches as an act of friendship. My friend (who is the priest of one of the churches) has tried but no luck so far, just excuses.