Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part VII

[januarybrown1998]

part 6

part 5

part 4

part 3

part 2

part 1

The events of NYE were shocking enough; the subsequent minimising and under-reporting were an affront to women's rights to equality across Europe.

It's a testament to the tenacity and commitment of this community that we are at thread VII; do join the discussion and feel free to share the links and letters to anyone you think may wish to be part of this important debate.


We are currently awaiting the approval of a petition to parliament.

Shortly we will post links for those who want to take a proactive part in safeguarding the rights of all UK women to live in freedom from the fear of mass sexual assault as we sadly saw in NYE and reports of which are finally seeing daylight across Europe.

[sportinguista]

Nobody has said that that they deserve to starve or freeze at any point, just that people fleeing the warzone should maybe be highest priority, and of that the most vulnerable.

Will the safezone work? If it's been used at Oktoberfest and there are still attacks it suggests otherwise. Do you have a suggestion that would maybe be better Emily, do you think the authorities have got it right and it should be ok?

[januarybrown1998]

[ItsJustaUsername]

whatever percentage are economic migrants, none of them deserve to live in absolute squalor with little food to freeze outside or in poor shelters

So what do you propose is the solution Emily? Bearing in mind it's the opening of borders causing all the drownings etc

Go on, the least you can do is answer 1 question, you've ignored the other 5000.

[OhforGodsake]

I've read through all 39 pages of this thread and I have to say that the vast majority of posts have been intelligently written and with an enormous amount of research having been done before posting. I have not agreed with every post but even those whose opinions I did not agree with, have, in the main, put their points across without resorting to insults and accusations. Those who have resorted to name calling and insult throwing have not exactly covered themselves in glory and, in my opinion, have shown an almost despotic need to cancel out anyone else's opinion if it differs from their own. I am very glad that so many people are making their voices heard about sex attacks across Europe and that a very positive thing has come out of this thread, ie the petition to lobby parliament. The murder of the Swedish volunteer yesterday is a terrifying escalation of events and I honestly hope that her death will not have been in vain and that this will be a massive wake up call for all those who have negated the safety of women.

[Cellardoor1]

"pretend that sexual assault in public places is something only immigrants do."

Has anyone on any of these threads said such a thing? I'm pretty sure they haven't. We aren't stupid, we know sexual assaults happen and are perpetrated by all kinds of men.

This discussion was started about the cologne attacks which are a completely new phenomenon in Europe - hundreds of men gathering to commit mass sexual assault and rape of women.

[Inkanta]

The primary motivation on these threads is a concern for womens' rights (and our daughters) - exploring the subject thoroughly, with ALL women in mind - not just British women. That means leaving no stone unturned and shining a torch on all cultures - trying to get an understanding on all levels.

Someone flagged up the issue of whether or not women are discouraged to swim by men in some cultures. That's a fair question that deserves some exploration. Why not?

[januarybrown1998]

Ohforgodsake many thanks indeed for reading and understanding the purpose of these threads and the spirit in which the discussions are being held.

[OhforGodsake]

Emily there is no need for the migrants at Calais to be "in absolute squalor with little food to freeze outside or in poor shelters". They could move into the £20million purpose built camp. But they don't like the look of it. So they're not that fussed are they? What's that old saying about gift horses and mouths?

[fourmummy]

That RT report is being reported by DM as well. I am actually lost for words. Every day brings something even more horrific.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3417669/Police-flee-lives-Swedish-migrant-camp-surrounded-screaming-mob-try-relocate-ten-year-old-boy-raped-multiple-times.html

[CalmYoBadSelf]

Emily Thank you, apology accepted. That was a very graceful acknowledgement of a mistake and I appreciate it

I think what posters have been trying to tell you is that it is hard to maintain a civilised discussion when words like racist, hate and xenophobic are used as insults. I don't know how long you have been out of the UK but words like those have recently been used to try to close down any questioning (as in Rotherham) so there is some sensitivity when they are used, even in robust debate. This, in turn, alienates you and makes others less likely to agree with you on points where there is agreement.
widow and twisted have disagreed with lots of stuff posted but have managed to swim against the tide without upsetting or offending other posters

It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything but listening to and debating a different point of view, and taking on board the points of others gets us all (and the discussion) a lot further than personal attack
Why don't we see if we can all argue our points without insults or accusations from here on?

[emilybohemia]

Inkanta, whether women from some cultures can swim doesn't seem relevant to the Cologne attacks. Also, there didn't seem evidence to back it up. The not being able to swim was being linked to drownings but there needs to be more clarity and about which culture does what before tying it to drownings near Lesbos. Sporting mentioned what happens in Saudi Arabia, but what happens there is likely different to Syria.

Sporting, German laws are different for sexual assault, attitudes of police and authorities clearly not good enough.

[OhforGodsake]

I'm just so glad that our voices are getting louder and stronger January . I signed the petition and have forwarded it on to my daughter in law and friends too.

[sportinguista]

www.icbh.org/topics/swimming_and_islam.htm

Looks like I'm the root of all evil then, the last para describes me, well except for the STD's, divorce and extra marital shagging!

[WillBeatJanuaryBlues]

widow and twisted have disagreed with lots of stuff posted but have managed to swim against the tide without upsetting or offending other posters

I whole heartedly agree with this statement.

And some of widows posts have been interesting even though I don't agree with them.


This is MN after all a robust site where lots of debates go on and get very heated.

Interesting though that so many posters think some thing is not right..

[sportinguista]

Do you think that they will do better next time? What can be done so everyone can feel safe and have a good time ( that includes recent migrants and refugees)?

[LumelaMme]

pretend that sexual assault in public places is something only immigrants do.
Oh, bullshit. I never said that. I didn't notice anyone else saying it either. I've been sexually assaulted - 3 times, white British each time. But I've never noticed the 'Cologne thing' happening previously in Europe.

And a person can be opposed to a high level of immigration without being a xenophobe.

[CalmYoBadSelf]

Cover your children's chubby legs and arms when they are little. Protect them from bad eyes and teach them that their skin and body are sacred and should be covered. Does anyone else find that rather sad? Little children's chubby legs and arms are a delight

I'm also a bit confused by the idea that you should not swim in public pools or at beaches as very few people have private pools

[CalmYoBadSelf]

Maybe there should be a disclaimer on the first post of a new thread

Not all immigrants commit sexual assault
Not all Muslims commit sexual assault
Not all immigrants are violent bad people and/or thieves
Not all Muslims are violent bad people and/or thieves
Not all people of NA/ME origin are violent bad people and/or thieves
No-one says we should abandon refugees
No-one says we should stop immigration totally

[Inkanta]

'Inkanta, whether women from some cultures can swim doesn't seem relevant to the Cologne attacks'

Does to me! I want to know if men in some cultures don't permit women to learn to swim. If true that doesn't seem right -- infact it seems abusive.

Womens' rights are uppermost in my mind Emily on here ;)

[TwistedReach]

'So what do you propose is the solution Emily? Bearing in mind it's the opening of borders causing all the drownings etc'
That is an extremely simplistic explanation for the drownings and entirely leaves out what people are fleeing from and why they are so desperate.
There is not an easy solution to any of this. But we cannot leave people on our border to rot in this way- it is completely inhumane.
That is not to go against the idea of helping fund camps nearer people's home countries. It doesn't have to be either/or. There is lots of talk about Syria (rightly) but I heard equally terrible stories about what people were fleeing from from Sudan, for example. One man had the most horrific photos on his phone that I have ever seen in my life- of what had happened to his family and community. He wanted fellow humans to see what was happening to his home. He knew I could do nothing to get him out of the camp, he just needed other people to know something of the horror they were and are experiencing. Someone to bear witness. Meanwhile a young boy with him was completely zoned out, couldn't concentrate, looked dissociated. One of the others saw me looking concerned and said that this young boys best friend had died the day before trying to get to the uk. The boy became upset and left the tent. These people are the ones that are being described as lacking rules, 'thuggy'- although I appreciate that was on another thread - and not wanted here because they are criminals. One of the young men in that group, had applied for asylum in France- months later he was still in the camp, because the French don't house them. The first man with the pictures, whose children and parents had been murdered in Sudan has a wife already in the uk- he wants to get to her. The others were terrified of further persecution in France- they all had wounds and stories to tell about the abuse they have suffered at the hands of the French police. They are scared that that is what a life in France will consist of- they don't believe they will stand a chance there.
There are children too ofcourse but I don't want to share their stories here. But they are young, living in squalor and are growing up thinking that nobody cares. There is now measles in the camps which will no doubt lead to more deaths.
It is hard to stomach the generalisations being made about 'economic migrants' in Calais. Nobody would be there if they felt they had a better alternative.

[WillBeatJanuaryBlues]

Boy who stabbed girl in sweden is from somalia.

[januarybrown1998]

And a person can be opposed to a high level of immigration without being a xenophobe

And without knowing a person's country of origin, it's kind of silly to accuse the whole posting cohort of xenophobia as there might be posters on this thread of Middle Eastern, North African or Eastern European origin.

There might also be posters who have been immigrants themselves.

In fact, I know there are.

[Wordsaremything]

May I suggest that whoever starts the new thread posts a link to the petition in the opening post*?
Maybe it's me, but I can't find it easily, even being familiar with the boards and these threads.

I'd do it myself but I haven't learned how to do links on my iPad.

Thanks for the thoughtful ongoing discussion. Let's ensure we don't lose track of all the useful links and posts though.

[sportinguista]

Apparently I'm a bad person and the root of all evil for having colored, hair and tattoos etc. It's official.