It's a testament to the tenacity and commitment of this community that we are at thread VII; do join the discussion and feel free to share the links and letters to anyone you think may wish to be part of this important debate.

We are currently awaiting the approval of a petition to parliament.

Shortly we will post links for those who want to take a proactive part in safeguarding the rights of all UK women to live in freedom from the fear of mass sexual assault as we sadly saw in NYE and reports of which are finally seeing daylight across Europe.

OP posts:

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 17:53

Vertigo The father of those two little boys and their mother who drowned said himself that it was his fault. I saw him on TV at the time. To some extent it was, because the very least he could have done was to buy them lifebelts. Apparently, the family lived in Turkey for 2 yrs and the shops there did a roaring trade in such items. Remember, they were setting off at night so it must hv been terrifying. I think that just maybe one other member of that family could hv survived if Dad had bought lifebelts. He had money from his sister, and she said that her brother was keen to get to Canada and have extensive dental work done.

AnnaForbes · 22/01/2016 17:56

Will catch up with thread properly later. Just wanted to post the reply from my MP. I was pleased to receive a response but frustrated that apart from the first couple of lines which do pay lip-service to the issues raised, it appears to be a Government PR piece probably trotted out to each and every concerned member of his Constituency regardless of the issue. He fails to mention the safety of women in Europe and the words "cultural differences" are conspicuously absent.

Thank you for contacting me about the attacks in Cologne on New Year's Eve.

Reports of the sexual assaults that occurred in Cologne are deeply distressing and my thoughts go out to the victims of these disgusting attacks. It is for the German authorities to ensure that those responsible are brought to justice.

I understand that continental European powers face a very difficult situation because people are coming into Europe in large numbers. I am glad therefore that the UK is committed to supporting our European partners in ensuring the full and proper management of the EU's external border. The UK will continue to build on the considerable practical assistance we are already providing to the member states experiencing particular pressures, and help them to build functioning asylum systems with the resilience to withstand increased pressures. For example, we have already provided over 1,000 expert working days to countries such as Greece and Italy-more than any other member state.

The Government's approach, which is to take more refugees directly from the Syrian refugee camps and resettle those people in the UK over the next few years, will mean that we can help the most vulnerable people. It also means that fewer people will be trying to make the dangerous journey through into Europe which has sadly seen so many lives lost.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Best wishes,

I will think about my reply to him over the weekend.

GeekLove · 22/01/2016 17:58

I wonder who are the powerful people who are gaining from this. Even though it is a complicated situatio with Russia, Iran, Saudi, NATO, EU, not to mention the hundreds of factions on the ground, I wonder if there STILL isn't the will to stop this, which will be the only way to stop the flow of refugees.

Meanwhile, here is a link to how the majority of Syrian refugees behave though:

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 18:05

Anna Your MP's letter is bollox. Nothing about the protection of women in UK. His reply reads like all Common Purpose replies read. Check it out.
www.cpexposed.com/about-common-purpose

MariscallRoad · 22/01/2016 18:09

HelpTheAnimalsFirst Greeks are not a huge population and do prefer to stay home. They are EU citizens, not migrants and can move to Germany if they can get a well paid job. Some work there in in Germany very high posts such as university professors and lawyers. Scientists and skilled Greeks are more likely to settle for life in US/Australia. Studies have shown Greeks who went to work in Germany 1970s-1980s made savings and returned home.

fourmummy · 22/01/2016 18:14

45 more people reported drowned, 17 of whom are children. Whoever/whatever is behind this is a monster.

VertigoNun · 22/01/2016 18:22

I heard of CP programming. I am sure the national citizenship hypnotised hitler youth thing for teens is dodgy as Fuck too.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 18:28

Tis a pity that so few Syrians actually entered Europe during the cross-country hike. But most had left Syria well before 2015. Reports at the time said that 4 out of 5 migrants were not Syrian.

"An estimated 9 million Syrians have fled their homes since the outbreak of civil war in March 2011, taking refuge in neighbouring countries or within Syria itself. According to UNHCR, over 3 million have fled to Syria's immediate neighbours Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq. 6.5 million are internally displaced within Syria. Meanwhile, under 150,000 Syrians have declared asylum in the European Union."

www.syrianrefugees.eu

MariscallRoad · 22/01/2016 18:30

Anna many thanks for showing the reply from your MP and I believe his point of view reflects also on his colleagues. It is in line with the Parliamentary debate of another petition on 8/9/15, and is clear that UK in the next few years is to only take refugees directly from camps and not allow them to come in as in Germany. Next he broadly acknowledges there are pressures on EU and tells the UK wants a proper control of external borders to limit incoming numbers.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 22/01/2016 18:32

Quickly skimming for any news I have to say:

No Help we don't all understand the POV of a murderer!
Same as I don't understand the POV of those who go and kill for Isis. All the same unnecessary hate.

LongWayRound · 22/01/2016 18:51

Help It was reported recently that many of the lifejackets sold in Turkey are fake.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/12086154/1000-fake-life-jackets-seized-from-Turkish-workshop.html

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 19:13

We have to try to understand from the perspective of everyone however unpalatable. My friend, a research psychologist, has to speak to all types including killers in order to understand how steps are formed to other steps. We might think that only an internal chaos could cause a person to do a really bad thing, but that is not so.

emilybohemia · 22/01/2016 20:28

Fourmummy,

There is no coordinated plan from the EU sadly, so no way of helping people properly and preventing drowning until there is. I'm not holding my breath.

There have been very elderly people coming though and injured people. I saw a woman over 100 on the news. Remarkable really how brave they are.

Most refugees and migrants show gratitude Help. Some of them become doctors, nurses, surgeons.

Merkel refused to let people die. Due to the poor response of other EU leaders, there was no coordinated and coherent response, but she tried. I don't care if she was leaned on, if she was, I'm glad she did it because she saved so many lives. Wouldyou rather the million she saved had drowned or been bombed?

'The migrants that Merkel let in dont even have the courtesy to hide their contempt for Europe.'

You are bang out of order saying this. Most refugees have shown gratitude and love Germany for what it has done.

The people that attacked the women were not recent refugees so I find your linking to them in very poor taste indeed.

emilybohemia · 22/01/2016 20:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 20:38

My parents were refugees to England, I am first generation British. I object to your calling me neo nazi, because my parents nearly died at the hands of them.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 22/01/2016 20:44

Help , let me be clear you can use your time thinking what you like.

But I object to you saying - we can all understand, can' t we.
The answer to that is NO.

emilybohemia · 22/01/2016 20:52

Help, you sound like one to me. You don't seem to have learnt much from your parents experience. These people are in the same position now and you seem to have nothing but disdain for them and no compassion for them at all. Idon't know how you can blame Aylan's father. Do you have any compassion at all?

BackToTheNorth · 22/01/2016 20:52

emily

You say:

'The people that attacked the women were not recent refugees so I find your linking to them in very poor taste indeed.'

Unfortunately for you, the fact is that yesterday the German police arrested 3 Algerian refugees involved in the mass sexual assault:

www.lawyerherald.com/articles/28408/20160121/german-police-arrests-three-algerian-refugees-sexual-assault-cologne-mass-attacks.htm

Aren't facts inconvenient?

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 20:55

Object away, Sonya, this is a discussion thread. I've objected to quite a few of your posts in the last threads but did not say so. Why should I ..... these threads are for exploring and discussing.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 21:00

Emily, the children's father said himself he was to blame because he made the decision to do the crossing. Dont you read anything?

emilybohemia · 22/01/2016 21:16

Parents so desperate to leave war torn Syria and the murderous Assad dictatorship are not to blame for drownings on the way to safer shores. Their choice is awful.

If Aylan's father feels guilty and blames himself, it is truly tragic. It was not his fault. Whether or not he blames himself and feels guilt, does NOT make him responsible. He wanted a better life for them than the one they had in Turkey.

As noted by someone upthread, many of the lifejackets sold are fake and would have been useless.

A UKIP supporter began the claim that they made the journey because of his teeth. This rumour was then picked up on by far right groups. They made the journey because they wanted to start a new life.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 22/01/2016 21:18

But I never claimed I spoke for you!

That is why I mention it.

Bye.

Yodeleeiay · 22/01/2016 21:18

I've been dipping in and out of these threads but haven't had time to post till now. I live in Cologne.

In a report released today on the NYE attacks for the whole of NRW state (which includes Cologne) apparently there were 126 claims of gang rape (Vergewaltigungen durch eine Gruppe = literally 'rape through a group'), out of a total of 1049 complaints. "All of the suspects are of North African origin".

126 women say they were gang raped on New Year's Eve here. Suddenly it feels even more serious, and it was bad enough before. This is reported by the UK Daily Express, not normally a first class source, but it seems to have links to the Express paper in Cologne; at least it uses their scoops.
www.express.co.uk/news/world/636944/Cologne-sex-attacks-list-crimes
I can't find any German media reporting the NRW report yet. I only hope it is embargoed till later.

German media are reporting though that Scotland Yard is helping the Cologne police to sift through the video footage to identify more suspects, as they have particular expertise in this.
www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/koeln-uebergriffe-londoner-polizei-hilft-bei-video-auswertung-a-1073445.html

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 22/01/2016 21:26

Yodeleeiay Welcome, and thank you for posting that information. If 126 rapes have occurred then the situation is far dire than we in UK thought. I take it that the women are not referring to digital penetration, but full rape?

Cellardoor1 · 22/01/2016 21:36

Yodeleeiay that is absolutely shocking and worse than anyone could have imagined.

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