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Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

1000 replies

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 15/01/2016 10:54

Thread 6.

OP posts:
emilybohemia · 16/01/2016 21:09

Unlucky, I said that politicians and media sometimes try to blur the line between Muslims and extremists. Sometimes they don't and as your example shows, this is not always the case.

I didn't say the media promote their beliefs.

I think this thread proves how it has been taken by the far right already and how far right rhetoric and statements are becoming normalised and entering the mainstream. I think that is evident in Mumsnet's failure to address the xenophobic tone of many of the posts in these threads. It's easier to follow the populist line rooted in fear and suspition,even if it is flawed. It isn't an honest debate when its roots are in fixed prejudices, stereotypes, generalisations and fear of foreign men.

The starter of this thread has openly stated that women in hijabs are hostile to Western culture and believe they are superior, as well as stating that she wouldn't want to speak to someone wearing a burkha. Someone asked what is so sexually arousing about hair. Someone complained about a child making a prayer mat. Someone complained that refugees threw food away and wouldn't tidy up litter. Someone asked why anyone would throw refugees a welcome party. Someone said to prepare for well organised Muslim groups whch would see the petition as an attack on them. Someone talked about 'Islamic society.'

I think many feel vulnerable now, understandably so, but that fear is being projected onto Muslims, that must be considered as individuals. I

So I question how honest this thread is about its 'concern' for women and believe it will do much for women or men. It is not an imprted problem,despite being framed in the media as 'new.'

VertigoNun · 16/01/2016 21:18

You didn't bother to check out this link I already posted. m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=882751941799554

I helped refugees BEFORE the press decided to help them. At a time when the public were against them.

I am going to report your post for misrepresent of my posting to make my post sound very different.

The evidence is on the open fb page, you don't want it to be true.

Don't misquote me again.

The op has been banned for telling you what they think of you.

kesstrel · 16/01/2016 21:23

Someone talked about 'Islamic society.'

There are over 7000 references to "Islamic society" on Google Scholar, many of them by Muslims. You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.Hmm

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 16/01/2016 21:23

Banned?

Inkanta · 16/01/2016 21:33

Tarrahush Gamea (the act of a group of men isolating, surrounding, stripping and sexually assaulting a woman) is more common in the countries from which these attackers come than it is in Germany or other European countries. This is evidenced by one of the victims herself saying that she has always felt safe on the streets of Germany and this type of attack is unprecedented.

Theydontkknow reminds us what we are fighting against here. Nothing racist, xenophobic or far right about it - just plain facts. The buck stops here. These men will not do this to my daughters!

Cellardoor1 · 16/01/2016 21:38

Emily you are deliberately taking things people said out of context and outright lying. No poster said to 'prepare for well organised Muslim groups which would see a petition as an attack on them'

This is what was actually said

" When women go forward with this petition/protest against abuse, you are going to get a lot more stick than they're giving. Fully expect rape threats being denounced as racists, being called hysterical, it's going to get a lot more abusive than anything they're giving."

No mention of Muslim groups. If this isn't what you are referring to please show the post you meant.

LumelaMme · 16/01/2016 21:43

emily, there have been 5,580 or so posts on these threads. I agree with you (for once) that there have been some comments that crossed a line. However, the vast majority have been entirely reasonable, but you still chucked the word 'racist' out at everyone who disagreed with you.

Someone asked what is so sexually arousing about hair.
Valid question. Can we not ask questions like this? Are you really attempting to police debate in this detail?

Also you draw a distinction between 'Muslims' and 'extremists'. Now, it's difficult for me, as I am not as au fait with Islam as I am with some other religions, but these extremists do call themselves Muslims and claim to be following the one true interpretation of the faith (to the point where they think Shias are infidels, I think - am I right there?) I don't think for a second that it is the one true interpretation, btw.

It's an interpretation, however, that's incredibly, mind-boggling, obscenely oppressive of women and girls. The people who peddle this call themselves Muslims. They're the ones - as I said upthread, who muck it up for ordinary Muslims. They're the ones you should be challenging, not people who are worried that this ideology is damaging millions and millions of lives.

Inkanta · 16/01/2016 21:47

'They're the ones - as I said upthread, who muck it up for ordinary Muslims. They're the ones you should be challenging, not people who are worried that this ideology is damaging millions and millions of lives.'

Lume - exactly!

Bring on the petition?

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 16/01/2016 21:52

Emily, I used the term ‘Islamic Society’. I did not use the term in a derogatory way at all. I have said repeatedly that I would like Muslim women on board any campaign as I think it would be tremendously helpful.

I find this issue a very difficult one to wrestle with – and to have it implied that I am racist is distressing for me.

Bienchen · 16/01/2016 21:57

Still trying to derail the thread Emily?

I think this thread proves how it has been taken by the far right already and how far right rhetoric and statements are becoming normalised and entering the mainstream. This is blatantly untrue. Please desist from making these blanket statements.

VertigoNun · 16/01/2016 21:58

The land of fairies where one group is a fluffy ball of perfection and another group are cackling nasty witches for not rubbing the perfect balls of fluff.

Wordsaremything · 16/01/2016 21:59

Oh the petition ! Where's the petition! Women are waiting!

emilybohemia · 16/01/2016 22:01

Islamic society comes up as organisations mostly, not as a broad definition of the way of life of Muslims. I am referring to the generalisations and lumping together of what is a diverse range of people and the snide remarks made about them which show contempt for them.

Vertigo, I checked out the link you posted before and I doubt that anyone that helped them would go on social media and use that experience to build a picture of them that portrays them as mostly selfish, uncooperative and ungrateful as you did, but I suppose it is possible. I haven't misquoted you as far as I know. You said they threw food away when they suspected it wasn't halal. Perhaps that is more to do with their fears than a lack of gratitude? You seemed to want to show them in as negative a light as possible. I've never heard anyone else talk about refugees like that that has helped them.

If the poster got banned it shows Mumsnet is taking unsavourary unsubstantiated dodgy views seriously and taking action to stop them being tolerated which I am relieved by.

LumelaMme · 16/01/2016 22:03

Oh, and another question for emily
These guys say they have the one true interpretation of Islam, yes? And some Muslims believe them, yes?

If they are believed by some Muslims, who I assume know much more about Islam than I do, is it any wonder that some non-Muslims, especially those who don't know any ordinary Muslims, take them at their word as well? (I don't: just to be clear on that point)

Seriously: go after these guys. They are the problem.

VertigoNun · 16/01/2016 22:04

More taking my posts out of context.

Moreshabbythanchic · 16/01/2016 22:04

If the poster got banned it shows Mumsnet is taking unsavourary unsubstantiated dodgy views seriously and taking action to stop them being tolerated which I am relieved by

If that was the case then I doubt you would be here any longer Emily

Wordsaremything · 16/01/2016 22:11

Where's the petiiton?

VertigoNun · 16/01/2016 22:15
LumelaMme · 16/01/2016 22:16
RufusTheReindeer · 16/01/2016 22:17

Agree with more

I think its a very poor show if she has been banned due to the comments i have seen (she may have said something very rude and been deleted beforei saw it)

I dont agree with many of those comments but these thread started as a debate...

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 16/01/2016 22:19

Such assaults are not an intrinsic part of Islamic culture which has brought much that is positive into the world.

Emily, this is a quote from my earlier post in which I used terminology you didn't like. I am hoping to remind you that I am not anti-Islam!

(And I don't know why I am defending myself.)

Inkanta · 16/01/2016 22:19

Vertigo - you have done so much hard work on these threads. See this as a useful test - on your patience. There will be more of this but we have to stand firm and focussed. Wink

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 16/01/2016 22:20

What a victory Emily , you must be so proud..

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 16/01/2016 22:22

This reply has been deleted

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VertigoNun · 16/01/2016 22:30

I thank MNHQ for allowing these threads to continue. I appreciate you're working on a fine line trying to remain neutral.

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