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Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part IV

1000 replies

VertigoNun · 11/01/2016 12:14

The reports of attacks on Women in NYE, are in their hundreds.Sad

OP posts:
emilybohemia · 11/01/2016 23:23

Well, we could say Dave's generous funding of impermanent homes for refugees is a reflection of his conscious effort to deny them their rights enshrined by international convention.

Olivepip59 · 11/01/2016 23:25

This is an interesting read for anyone who doesn't melt or combust if they are exposed to alternative viewpoints.

Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 23:28

I wonder Amnesty International's take on all this is ....

TwistedReach · 11/01/2016 23:30

Apologist seems to have different definitions, if you mean I support violent rapists, that is ludicrous. But yes I do want to understand why it happens. I have said this many times and make no apology for it.
I do not minimise violence and rape, or the impact it has on the victim.

TwatTheNinja · 11/01/2016 23:31

Just re-posting this as it was only an hour ago but its already 3 pages back.

foreignpolicy.com/2012/04/23/why-do-they-hate-us/

iPost · 11/01/2016 23:32

iPost (great name!), what would you do?

Forget any idea about educating people. Accept the reality that lots of people tend to hold on tight to their most important beliefs.

And realise even some of those that superficially appear to cope with something very oppositional to their own values, may be stewing under the surface. Eg... yes I could (eventually) get used to eating at a grubby food stall in a rat infested area under a flyover, next to a busy, polluted road ...and after a while be OK with that. Because it became my new new normal. Evidently my standards of food hygiene are quite flexible. But could I bollocks ever believe I am worth less, deserve less, am more expendable, more abusable, more disposable, less valuable than a male.

I could and did perform "I am submissive, feminine female" when social convention there dictated I did so or face unpleasant music. But the cost of that was I started to hate myself ....just that little bit more everyday. I struggled with the concept of living a lie. Because unlike my food hygiene standards, my feminism isn't/wasn't flexible.

It was that living of a lie that undid me. I couldn't contain my anger at myself. Because due to social/legal sanctions I betrayed my principles daily. And I turned a blind eye every single day to expectations and behaviours in action around me, which turned my stomach.

Despising yourself for betraying the principles you hold most dear and looking away from disgusting things rather than standing up for what you believe in is not an easy thing to live with. So I turned it outward and it mutated into avidly despising the entire country and damn near every national in it by the time I left. I lost all my shades of grey. Just as well there was no feminist group advocating violence over there. Not saying I would have stepped over the line into violence myself. (while not guaranteeing I wouldn't have) But.. I think on some level I would have been sympathetic and supported their principles and aims. Via my anger and resentment, with the added lubricant of my immaturity and youth at the time, I likely would have found it relatively easy to justify their means to the end in my own head.

That was my reality, (and I've known plenty of other women with not wholly dissimilar experiences), my solution, like so many others, was to leave the place that was slowly driving me mad cos it was a really poor fit with my world view. (Because I could. Thank you British passport for opening doors that otherwise would be slammed shut.)

In terms of finding a solution before there are horrible problems I think for a decent chunk of the world's population who also have strong views they hold dear, the secret to more successful, happier immigration would have to mean accepting they too may have the same human limitations that "people with firm feminist beliefs" like me have. So rather than going somewhere culturally distant that looks good on paper, they are likely to end up better adjusted if they move instead to a place that is different enough from home to be attractive (safer, more work, less draconian etc), but similar enough to avoid having to live your life as some kind of non stop daily cultural/ethical challenge. And if somebody does end up in a place that is slowly driving them mad, there has to be mechanisms in place to allow for a painless as possible transfer to somewhere less challenging that will let them in.

And that is what I see as the least painful solution all round. What we didn't do when we had the chance. Europe recognising the common good and its own gain in providing plentiful and long term resources to ensure no nation near a war zone, whose population is fleeing from all borders, suffers disproportionately from a sudden influx. And being willing to keep that support up for as long as it is needed, at a level that avoids deprivation causing dissent and flight. Plus accepting that anybody they have accommodated in their own "culturally distant" country, who is displaying a strong tendency toward finding life challenging in terms of oppositional beliefs ....is in need of a change of environment, for everybody's sake.

Unfortunately I have no idea how that could be put into practice now, not without the rapid invention of a time machine.

For now, I think....

More police on the streets... as in hire more, not just move them in from other parts of the country. Use the army for now. Just ... change their uniforms if possible otherwise people will get even more frightened. Women cannot be put into a position where through fear they start changing their habits. So boots on street to inspire confidence that protection is to hand and keep women living their lives as normally as possible.

Specialised task forces to focus on street level sex crime at events/hot spots with realistic levels of manpower. Co-ordinated and focused on knowledge sharing at a European/international level. The plan being to cut this off at the knees before it spreads even further, like a particularly nasty dose of "rapist measles".

Rigorous determination to avoid temporary or semi permanent "impervious culture bubbles" springing up in areas. Pop 'em as soon as you spot them. Ditto congregations of homegrown extremists.

More courtrooms

More judges

More prisons

More health/mental health resources for the people at the sharp end of imported sexual assault/abuse tactics. Connect with equivilent entities overseas to gain knowledge as per what specific considerstions need to be brought to the table to help victims of this specific crime heal physically, emotionally and mentally. We need to check if a Eurocentric sex crime tool bag fits the bill. As little working in the dark with assumptions rather than knowledge should be the aim.

Strengthened and widened legislation with regards to sexual assault/rape that gets used, not just written down and left to get dusty with the epitaph "well at least we gave you wordy lip service ! !"

More punitive sentencing of sex crimes regardless of who is doing it.

The abandonment of any legislation that makes it onerously difficult to expel a non-national with unwanted behaviours, regardless of what they do. I would include non-nationals with EU citizenship in that. Just because the law may say we can't at the moment, doesn't mean it has to stay that way. If you can't behave in the EU you shouldn't get to float around unfettered in the EU being a scrote.

Restore faith in the media and power structures by giving them a reason to abandon the practice of burying/minimising news of this nature. People pressure via comments, cancelling of subscriptions, writing to MPs etc ... with a clear message as per why. Shitloads of negative comment on SM. God knows why but that is the only thing so many entities seem to care about these days, how well/badly they are doing on Twitter.

Other governments in Europe to offer whatever help Germany needs to manage what has the potential to become a European crisis. Of proportions I would prefer not to contemplate.

Moderates on the left, right and centre, to engage with each other respectfully, using brain rather than pure emotion and setting aside point scoring knee jerks about other issues for the time being. All while steadfastly ignoring distraction techniques from the halo polisher crowd and anti-all-immigration-ever mob at the far ends of the spectrum. Whose joint agenda is to control the discourse to the point where it becomes limited to just their two extreme perspectives. They need each other to feed/be fed by each other, or they can't survive. Choke them off as far as we are able with an absence of acknowledgement, let alone diving down rabbit holes after them.

NB - A time machine might actually be cheaper and more achievable than all the above.

VertigoNun · 11/01/2016 23:32

A reminder.

If we think more about Plato and his theory, the division of society.

There are:
Producers (workers) ruled desire
Auxiliaries (warriors) ruled by courage
Philosopher's (Leaders) ruled by poor memory guess knowledge

Women are kept down by rape, physical and mental opression in their roles as workers and warriors.

If Women are leaders or taken seriously by leaders, they stop being such a plyable workforce.

OP posts:
Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 23:33

what happened in Sweden:

"“It was a modus operandi that we had never seen before: large groups of young men who surround girls and molest them,” Ticoalu said. “In the cases where we were able to apprehend suspects, they were with a foreign background, newly arrived refugees aged 17-20, who had come to Sweden without their families.”

Sounds familiar, no?

TwistedReach · 11/01/2016 23:33

I do not think that seeking to understand why someone does bad things means you are erasing the victim.
I am really sorry if it upsets you, and I obviously not say this on a support thread. But I think it essential if we want to make rape and violence less likely to happen.

Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 23:34

The Guardian article does not pussyfoot around Shock it has been so far the least offensive representation of the matter.

Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 23:35

Accoring to the Guardian article,

"Separately, police in Malmö, Sweden’s third city, said that on New Year’s Eve gangs of young men surrounded women and molested them.

A couple of hundred men, described as “unaccompanied from Afghanistan”, were involved in what was “a new phenomenon”, a police spokesperson told the Sydsvenskan newspaper. No women made a formal complaint, police said."

WildeWoman · 11/01/2016 23:36

These last few articles posted have had a profound and triggering effect on me. What must these poor women go through on a daily basis? They are treated less than a goat would be!
These animals (the men), are not people I want in our society. Westerners have fought long and bloody hard for the culture we have now.
Our next battle is to stop being invaded by our past. We need to stop these people invading ours. I'm sorry. But that's just it.
We all have our battles to fight. But I do not want my daughter to have to face into a battle we had already won for her.

This is such a mess.

hiddenhome2 · 11/01/2016 23:39

I'll take the time machine iPost

The leaders of Germany and the EU lack the intelligence and organisational skills to clean up the mess and deal with this like mature, responsible adults.

The toddlers have taken over the playroom I'm afraid. I sit and await the next monumental fuck up developments with the horror of someone watching a Russian YouTube car crash video.

hiddenhome2 · 11/01/2016 23:42

Swedish women are probably prevented from making 'a formal complaint' as any criticism of Islam is illegal.

They probably aren't able to give a description of the perpetrator Confused

fourmummy · 11/01/2016 23:42

Vertigo I read a good piece recently, which speculated on her behaviour. A politician famed for her cool-headed and decisive decision making, who in 2010 asserted that multiculturalism usually fails suddenly offers an unlimited cap on immigration, then insists that other countries share the numbers, then half-reverses her decision. In the meantime, her decision allows the people smuggling business to flourish and many of those said people die. All of this particularly in light of the social problems experienced in Sweden. Why the ensuing news blackout? Why would she create chaos unless she had no choice? Seemed convincing. I'll try and link.

venusinscorpio · 11/01/2016 23:43

But I think it essential if we want to make rape and violence less likely to happen.

How will minimising the harm those men did and making unfounded excuses for them make rape and violence less likely to happen exactly? Come on then, what's your action plan? Why is this relevant? What good does it do, apart from make women feel that it is only to be expected?

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 11/01/2016 23:43

Malmo: Saddest thing is when no one even bothers to make a complaint. The new normal perhaps? Is it not worth the hassle if there are no consequences ?

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 11/01/2016 23:45

Maybe they have been brainwashed into feeling sorry for the guys?

hiddenhome2 · 11/01/2016 23:46

The women of Europe must learn to become compliant and not complaining is a step towards this.

hiddenhome2 · 11/01/2016 23:47

They'll be too frightened to complain. There'll be some kind of process involved which is stopping them from doing it.

Olivepip59 · 11/01/2016 23:48

iPost, thank you for such an intelligent and considered reply.

You gave really helped crystallise my thinking here, along with several other bright and open minded posters.

You also gave me my biggest chuckle If you can't behave in the EU you shouldn't get to float around unfettered in the EU being a scrote for which I applaud you.

MistressMia · 11/01/2016 23:49

Some excellent points and actions made on this thread. Fundamentally however I'm not sure that much will change - we'll simply be attempting to contain things, much like we're doing with terrorism.

Another NYE type mass assault may not happen as the authorities will increase police presence, and so the tactics will just change to smaller gangs and lower level street harassment, the incidences of which will be too numerous in number for the police to deal with it.

The only true way of effecting change is to get the perpetrators themselves to change their beliefs and start viewing women with respect and as equals. A monumental task when their religion hard wires them to think otherwise.

To add to the excellent article by Mona, here's Wafa Sultan, a Syrian ex-muslim who like Mona counters everything that the deniers & apologists on this thread state.

VertigoNun · 11/01/2016 23:49

Maybe they have been brainwashed into feeling sorry for the guys?

Lots of Guardian type articles...

OP posts:
WildeWoman · 11/01/2016 23:50

We can not become like them. Our mothers, our grandmothers, they fought for the rights we have. Don't hand them away. Fight. Fight with the pen.

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