Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part IV

1000 replies

VertigoNun · 11/01/2016 12:14

The reports of attacks on Women in NYE, are in their hundreds.Sad

OP posts:
emilybohemia · 11/01/2016 21:43

'If that was done to one German girl (woman?), it is presumably being done to a lot more women in other countries? And is obviously just as dreadful if so'.

Do you mean the video Dee Dee that many are accepting as valid evidence that he gang raped someone, when I am fairly sure none of us here speak that language and he could be saying anything?

Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 21:43

Islamkritik

Also great brand new article on a reputable News site Frankfurter Allgemeine

www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/gastbeitrag-von-samuel-schirmbeck-zum-muslimischen-frauenbild-14007010.html

Egyptian writer and feminist Mona Eltahawy talks to Le Monde stating that Arab societies men hate women. Sorry I'm not able to give a proper translation but Google translate is only a click away Smile.

LongWayRound · 11/01/2016 21:44

You are fairly sure that none of us speak German???

ABetaDad1 · 11/01/2016 21:44

Pink - not sure if it has been referenced on the last 4 threads but I have read that out of 4000 asylum seekers accepted in one region of Germany (Bavaria?) about 700 young men disappeared immediately.

In other words free to roam across EU borders without hindrance and no one know who they really were. There are potentially thousands of young men in Europe like this with no status.

How on earth did we get to this situation? Just opening our borders without proper checks. I fear there is no chance of catching many of the perpetrators of the Cologne attacks and no chance of preventing them committing further crimes. We have no idea who most of them are.

Yes the left wing politicians should squirm over their abject failure to carry out their primary duty - to protect a nation's borders!

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 11/01/2016 21:45

Many of the men who carried out the Cologne attacks undoubtedly will have similar backgrounds and will no doubt in the main disappear. They are not refugees or genuine asylum seekers

Its very easy now to do this, I have worked in the police, I have seen many years ago the warrant box for dangerous drivers from the EU who we cannot find. Its huge. We cannot trace or track or find them, they move lodgings, and countries with ease. Drunk drivers, drivers without license or insurance.

Very transient, usually cash in hand jobs and certainly no tenancy agreements but basic cash paid daily or weekly lodgings.

Its fucking chaos, and that's the UK without this extra migration on top.

Justanotherlurker · 11/01/2016 21:45

Oktoberfest, wasn't hushed up in the press and again it is abhorrent what happens at Oktoberfest but it isn't on par of what is recently coming out in the press from Sweden/Finland Germany and France etc, that is also ignoring our issues within the UK such as Rotherham/Oxford/Derby etc

(Unless you consider it all a conspiracy) There is an underlying characteristic within the majority of cases that needs a light shining on it and exposing, if it was any other demographic that was prevelant (obi discounting men) then the media and I suspect someone like you would be all over it.

Considering Nordic countries seem to have found there relief valve in opening up in coming forward to the press and we had a situation here in the UK where 2nd/3rd generation where complicit shows that the simple 're-education' isn't effective in some scenarios.

I'm pro immigration, but I'm very against pro unfettered immigration, and although I wouldn't call it endemic it does look like we have problem that needs addressing.

TwistedReach · 11/01/2016 21:47

Emily you are staying so calm and articulate despite the sniping and comments about how people shouldn't talk to you.

I said on the last thread that I think it can be worth continuing to make your voice heard despite feeling like nobody is listening. That there may be others watching who can see something else. I think a tiny indication of that is the fact that mumsnet have deleted many comments on the other thread including the vile attack from polenta, because I said I visit the calais camp. There were attempts to shut us up- as if anyone having views like ours must be trolling, men, journalists, sock puppets, or working for someone or something I couldn't understand. There were comments about knowing who we are and that we would be gone soon! Bullying and silencing (or worryingly paranoid). Well funnily enough mumsnet have not banned us. I won't hold my breath for apologies.

It is not trolling or silencing to talk about racism or to say when you think you see it, in a debate that is partially about immigration. Considering what the refugee experience is and the damage it does to men as well as women to be rejected and denied safety, is not irrelevant, derailing or indicative of being a troll, again when thinking about a topic that involves immigration.

I don't think integration is straight forward. I don't think any of this is.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 11/01/2016 21:47

polentapies "I still believe that these attacks were organised. I think it's going to come out"

Not only were the sex attacks organised, but the mass migration to Europe also was. Those not coming from a war country knew they stood little chance of gaining asylum, but they knew that some Syrians were going to trekk across Europe and they deliberately misidentified themselves. I heard that it was 20 percent only of Syrians who walked into Europe - the rest were economic chancers.

LongWayRound · 11/01/2016 21:48

Here's a link to Mona Eltahaway's original article in English:
foreignpolicy.com/2012/04/23/why-do-they-hate-us/

hefzi · 11/01/2016 21:48

Emily it's not a lack of compassion that led me to post that: I was simply trying another means, that hadn't yet been used, to help you to understand that this is not just a case of misogyny, but a case intimately linked with the issue of immigration from countries with different beliefs' and values' systems. That becomes exacerbated at times like now, when there is a mass influx of people.

The refugee issue simply isn't as straightforward as you've been presenting it in these threads, I am afraid, and I say this as someone whose work is connected with refugees. There are a whole range of factors to be considered: we know that refugees who are resettled elsewhere out of their region DO NOT return permanently when it's possible for them to do so. This isn't an issue for the host communities themselves, but for the very communities that the refugees have come from initially. By resettling Yezidis, say, in Europe, we are ensuring that there will be on Yezidi community in their indigenous areas in the future. By resettling Arameans in Sweden, say, we break a tradition of Christianity in the Middle East that has lasted two thousand years. It doesn't mean we shouldn't do this - but we do need to acknowledge that ethnic-cleansing-by-accident also has consequences.

Approximately 10% of Syrian refugees are currently in Europe, as I said on one of the previous threads: the vast bulk rest are in North Africa, Turkey, Iraq and Jordan. No-one wants to see people slaughtered. But scooping them up to Europe isn't necessarily the best outcome for them either - what many refugees want, actually, is to be able to go home. And by resettling them, we ensure that can never really happen. Sometimes, that is the best thing for them, of course - but it's not always, and your posts seem to blatantly ignore this.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 11/01/2016 21:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 11/01/2016 21:50

In other words free to roam across EU borders without hindrance and no one know who they really were.

There was an open letter to Merkel from the people who process refugees, In some cases people were simply trying to listen to accents to see if they were from Syria and yet the person said they actually had no experience in the accent!

Its terrifying and as I said before, it doesn't help the true refugees either.

hefzi · 11/01/2016 21:51

Tension I completely agree with everything you said: I'm sorry, I've just realised the post where I was talking about something you'd said made it look as though I was disputing what you'd written. Apologies! Blush Poor phrasing on my part.

Justanotherlurker · 11/01/2016 21:52

Phenomenon of sexual harrsment indicies this fall : Helsinki

yle.fi/uutiset/helsingin_poliisi_seksuaalisesta_hairinnasta_syksyn_mittaan_hairioita_ilmioksi_asti/8583599

emilybohemia · 11/01/2016 21:52

Longwayround, I listened to it for a few seconds, the language seemed incoherent to me.

Egosumquisum · 11/01/2016 21:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LongWayRound · 11/01/2016 21:54

ABetaDad1 I posted this link earlier.

"It's not the first time refugees disappear without a trace from emergency housing in Germany, but the state of Lower Saxony recently faced an unusually high figure. About 700 of roughly 4,000 asylum seekers put up by the northern state disappeared last month, according to a state-wide survey by the "Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung" newspaper. Many hadn't even been registered yet - the first step in asylum proceedings. The authorities don't know who they are or where they might have gone. The same has been happening, though to a lesser degree, in refugee centers across the nation in September and October."

hefzi · 11/01/2016 21:55

Btw, for those of you interested in this issue, if you haven't, please read Hymens and Headscarves - LongWayRound has linked to one of her articles ^^ but the book is fantastic. It's a quick read, but a real eye-opener, especially if you're not familiar particularly with the way the patriarchy functions within Islamic societies.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 11/01/2016 21:56

No worries hefzi, the error was mine - in trying to highlight another angle of this situation it might have looked like I wasn't focussing on the NYE attacks/victims etc. I think we covered it all in the end Smile

WillBeatJanuaryBlues · 11/01/2016 21:56

Yes the left wing politicians should squirm over their abject failure to carry out their primary duty - to protect a nation's borders!

they should but they wont.

horrific, and awful for the people of germany and the poor women who now have to live in a different way.

even if they can oust merkel how can they possibly repair the damage now?

once the door has been opened how can they trace those who know how to dissapear.

chaos

Pinkchampchoccies · 11/01/2016 21:56

By the way, according to the Egyptian writer Mona Eltahawy anyone who tries to shut down the ethnic angle of the recent assaults on women by shouting "whataboutoctoberfest" should remember that for the women in the middle East and north Africa it is kind of like "Octoberfest and Carnival everyday. Sad

Justanotherlurker · 11/01/2016 21:59

Poliisi kertoo, miksi se on tuonut esille huoltaan turvapaikanhakijoiden syyllistymisestä seksuaaliseen häirintään. Poliisipäällikkö Lasse Aapio Helsingin poliisista korostaa, että vaikka kantaväestökin syyllistyy seksuaaliseen häirintään, nyt uusi ilmiö on, että näitä rikoksia tekevät henkilöt toimivat suurina ryhminä.

The police tell why they have brought to attention their worries concerning sexual harassment committed by asylum seekers. The police chief Lasse Aapio from the Helsinki police highlights, that even though sexual harassment is committed by the indigenous people as well, it's a new phenomenon that these acts are committed by large groups.

Helsingin poliisin mukaan syksyn aikana yleisellä paikalla tapahtuneet lähestymisyritykset ovat tässä laajuudessaan aiempaa selvästi aggressiivisempia.
According to the Helsinki police, the acts committed in public spaces during the fall have been noticeable more aggressive.

Aiemmista ilmiöistä ja yleisellä paikalla tapahtuneesta seksuaalisesta häirinnästä poiketen epäiltyjä on kuvattu yksinomaan ulkomaalaisiksi, kertoo Helsingin poliisi tiedotteessaan.

Deviating from earlier incidents, the suspects have been described solely as foreigners, the police say.

– Yksittäisiä aggressiivisia tapauksia on ollut aiemmin, mutta asia on nyt syksyllä muodostunut sen verran laajamittaisemmaksi, että voidaan puhua jo ilmiöstä, toteaa poliisipäällikkö Lasse Aapio Helsingin poliisilaitokselta.

Isolated incidents of aggressive cases have existed before, but during the fall this has become so widespread that it can be called a phenomenon.

Aapion mukaan tässä ilmiössä uudenlainen piirre on se, että useissa tapauksissa uhreja on lähdetty seuraamaan yleisillä paikoilla, lyöttäydytty seuraan vasten tahtoa ja käyttäydytty aggressiivisesti ja seksuaalissävytteisesti.

According to Aapio, a new feature in this phenomenon is the fact that the victims have been followed in public spaces, and the perpetrators have forced themselves close and have acted aggressively and in a sexual manner.

– Ei meillä ole aiemmin tapahtunut tällaista, että suuri joukko ihmisiä toimii samalla tavalla ja kohdistaa samantyyppisiä tekoja alaikäisiin ihmisiin julkisella paikalla, pohtii Aapio.

We haven't had this kind of thing before, where a large group of people act in the same manner and target underaged people in public spaces, ponders Aapio

Poliisi haluaa tuoda esiin huolen, onko syksyllä alkanut ilmiö jatkumassa, ja mikä on tilanne kesää kohti mennessä. Aapio korostaa, että asiaan täytyy puuttua keskustelun kautta tai muulla tavoin.

The police are concerned if this phenomenon will continue and what summer will bring. Aapio says that we must do something about this through dialogue or other means.

– On haastavaa poistaa tai ottaa kiinni tällainen ryhmä. Se vaatii vastaavan määrän poliisimiehiä. Se on haaste mille tahansa poliisilaitokselle, myös meille, toteaa Aapio.

It's challenging to remove or catch a group like this. It takes just as big a group of policemen. It's a challenge to any police department, us as well, says Aapio

Vastaanottokeskusten ja muiden tahojen kanssa käydään läpi mitkä ovat pelisäännöt kadulla ja suhde naisiin. Tulemme matalalla kynnyksellä puuttumaan siihen käytökseen, joka voi johtaa ahdisteluun tai muuhun, vakuuttaa Aapio.

The police are going to go through what's appropriate and permissible when it comes to the streets and relationship to women with asylum centres. We will have a low threshold for interfering in any sort of behavior that could lead to harassment.

THE REST IS GOOGLE TRANSLATE BECAUSE IM NOT GREAT AT THIS

Information about Helsinki Senate Square New Year's events also include a second-hand information, to refine the police in a statement. The police must therefore be told in addition to its own observations, including what the doormen may have been reported to the police. Helsinki Police briefed earlier that the police have been notified in respect of the New Year's events in three harassment cases, of which two have been reported to the police. Helsinki police have now recorded a complaint of sexual harassment as well as other stewards to do with the findings. Aapio recalls that in general, sexual offenses is the threshold for reporting. - Piilorikoksia happens more than what we come to know, evaluate Aapio. Police emphasize that sexual harassment and other crimes on victims must report the incident to make a low threshold - whether molester ago a family friend or a stranger, Finnish or foreign. Helsinki Police Department deputy chief, Ilkka Koskimäki an interview with the British newspaper The Telegraph received many actors wonder why the interview was raised strongly raised the proportion of asylum-seekers as factors violence targeting sexual violence. Commentators point out that sexual harassment against women has occurred in Finland in abundance in the past, even before the entry of asylum seekers.

hefzi · 11/01/2016 21:59

Yes the left wing politicians should squirm over their abject failure to carry out their primary duty - to protect a nation's borders!

^^This! Part of the UN's definition of what constitutes a state involves the necessity for having control over its own borders: the EU has certainly put paid to that, even before Schengen, I'm afraid.

ABetaDad1 · 11/01/2016 22:00

WillBeat - so basically what yo are saying is we have no choice but to close all the EU borders to everyone - including genuine asylum seekers - because we have absolutely no idea who is who or any way of controlling them even before asylum is granted. Once they cross the border they can go anywhere and do what they like without fear of being caught or ejected.

Its mayhem and I am afraid Angela Merkel will have to be deposed. She pushed for uncontrolled migration and this is the result.

polentapies · 11/01/2016 22:00

Def going to read that Hefzi, thanks!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread