Quick Poll: EU stay or leave?

[BlueSmarties76]

Would you vote to stay or leave the EU?

Quick poll.

Leave

Leave!

I once had to assess a range of newspapers using a test to gauge the reading age of the material. The average level was around 10 years.
So could anyone on this thread explain the reasons for staying in at a level that an average 10 year old could understand?
The reasons for leaving are usually framed well below that.

The reasons for staying usually boil down to 'we believe that the UK is too small and crap to survive on its own'.

So what do the EU do for us that we'd have to learn to do by ourselves?
Are we really so useless that we'd collapse?
They haven't come out well as a mature, unified force over the last year or so; financial crises, refugee problems, accountability.

It's possible to argue back and forth about immigration, trade, the economy etc. But the core issue is control and accountability. If your rulers are not accountable to the electorate you don't live in a democracy. And especially given the massive challenges we face with globalisation, the environment, displaced people and so on we need to keep our politicians accountable. Otherwise decisions truly will be taken purely by the elite, for the elite. TTIP is a good example of this. The U.K. government structures have their flaws but broadly work and enable the electorate to kick out politicians who don't meet the people's needs, or ensure laws that don't work are repealed. Neither of these things is possible while we are members of a supranational political union whose laws are drafted by a ruling elite that no-one gets to vote for and - crucially - no-one can get rid of. And those laws, once passed, can't be repealed.

That's the reason to leave. Not immigration, not red tape, but the irredeemably anti-democratic nature of the EU.

Armchair - the Remainers argue that as part of the EU we get more clout when negotiating trade deals and the like. The reality is that trade deals are often bogged down for years by horsetrading between representatives of different EU nations with competing interests.

It's also worth pointing out that much of the regulation rubber-stamped by the EU is not originated there. Rather it comes from the ILO, the IMO, Codex Alimentarius and other international bodies that devise international standards in particular sectors. The EU just ratifies them. Outside the EU we'd be directly represented on those bodies; as a member m, given that the EU pushes constantly for single representation as the EU, for all 28 members, we have 1/28th of a seat at the top table.

That's one of the issues (along with the democracy one) that the Remainers try and fudge. The EU is not the top table. Globalisation is happening at a higher level. And without representation that's democratically accountable, we are sleep-walking into a situation where the little people get shafted again and again and have absolutely no comeback.

This is fundamentally my reason for wanting to leave: I think it will take colossal effort to keep some democratic brakes on globalisation and the structure and culture of the EU pushes in the exact opposite direction.

As of 08:34:23

29 Leave
44 Stay
2 Other

Tight I may have miscounted as its hard to keep track of responses when people write multiple long paragraphs - I get confused bat who has already voted.

Leave.
And I live in Europe so would be immediately affected.

Leave.

With reluctance.

Anyone know if there have been any large public polls done since new year? The YouGov one was 15th December. Post links if so?

Undecided.

Stay.

Leave.

But I've thought that for a long time!

Oldfarticus: secondary immigration is a potential issue, but the reality is that the vast majority of those who have been settled for 6-7 years in a country like Germany - full employment, good training, extensive social security, etc will remain there. Those who migrate again are likely to be skilled workers who are in demand in UK.

I would vote to stay.

Stay

There was an interesting programme on Radio yesterday about Brexit. One nugget was that if we leave, and therefore have to renegotiate all out trade agreements, we would have to hire negotiators from Europe, because we don't have any expertise (having not had to do it since we joined the EC in the early Seventies. Ironic.

Leave and even EU defender DH is having a wobble.

So we don't have any British citizens skilled in negotiation currently working in the EC?

I don't see why that is so. London is filled with some of the best legal minds in the world.

Also, if you leave that's it. You don't accept their rules or frameworks anymore. You quit paying your dues, and start requiring visas.

Not saying we'd be that spiteful or uncooperative, but basically that's the bottom line.

Leave. The EU is undemocratic and not accountable to the electorate. I have also thought this for a long time.

Stay but there need to be some serious changes.

Leave and believe the outcome of the referendum will be to leave.

OP I think the numbers you give in your 08.39 post are the wrong way round -should it not be 29 Stay and 44 Leave?

Yesterday Throughthickandthin gave the numbers as Stay - 22
Leave - 34 so Leave can't be 29.