Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Quick Poll: EU stay or leave?

811 replies

BlueSmarties76 · 10/01/2016 11:38

Would you vote to stay or leave the EU?

Quick poll.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 10/03/2016 09:23

that's a nice theory cote - though ask anyone who works, for example, in the building industry what has happened to wages sincse mass eu immigration from poland etc and you'll find it pans out rather differently.

TheHoneyBadger · 10/03/2016 09:26

minimum wage is meant to be mean MINIMUM - as in jobs that are totally unskilled, all sociable hours etc. what it has come to mean is 'all we'll pay because we know someone will take the job'. i have a friend who is a recruiter for a security firm - overnight shifts, license required (to be paid for by the worker and in place before they can take the job) and absolutely minimum wage. he dreads recruiting in places with lower immigration because the only people who tend to take these roles are from eastern europe saving to go back to a much cheaper economy and living in shared houses minimising bills.

minimum wage for 12hr shifts overnight and on weekends? you really believe that has always been the norm?

CoteDAzur · 10/03/2016 09:31

Wages have been falling across the board in the UK, as in quite a few other places.

How much did construction workers' wages fall, then? Some numbers would be useful.

Construction wages were on the increase in the UK, last I looked.

TheHoneyBadger · 10/03/2016 09:34

talk to people who recruit for these jobs. they know damn well that without this cheap labour source they'd have to pay at least a couple of pounds more an hour to fill these roles.

yes it's anecdotal most of life is.

as is what has happened to rental prices for students or young people trying to get a room in a shared house or for young families trying to rent a terraced house in a mid england town.

CoteDAzur · 10/03/2016 10:14

Um... I'm not going to launch on a mission to survey UK construction companies. I do have a life to get on with. I hope you understand.

In any case, I don't base economic analyses on anecdotal 'evidence'. You shouldn't, either.

TheHoneyBadger · 10/03/2016 10:21

direct experience and that of your peers is actually a pretty good basis for our world view ime. of course the less local you get the less that direct experience matters.

CoteDAzur · 10/03/2016 10:32

World view, possibly. Claims about the state of the economy, no.

chilipepper20 · 10/03/2016 10:51

that's a nice theory cote - though ask anyone who works, for example, in the building industry what has happened to wages sincse mass eu immigration from poland etc and you'll find it pans out rather differently.

every time I call a plumber I pay more.

Anyway, wages aren't too low, and I would certainly welcome more choice in the buildings trade. In london, they have all the power.

The problem is the cost of living is too high.

SpringingIntoAction · 10/03/2016 10:52

The leader of the REMAIN campaign, Stuart Rose, ex-Head of Marks and Spencers, says that if the UK leaves the EU then wages will rise.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html

If you have too much cheap EU migrant labour chasing too little work wages are depressed.

The right of any EU migrant, skilled or unskilled to come to live in the UK and compete with the habitually resident UK workers has depressed wages.

Remove the automatic right of cheap EU migrant labour to live in the UK and wages will have to increase to attract to workers from that smaller pool of labour.

That's basic economics. That's what the leader of the REMAIN campaign is explaining to us.

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 10/03/2016 11:02

I dont need the leader of REMAIN to explain that to me.

I know it already its obvious and I don't even have a Maths GSCE Grin

Supply and demand.

Its a boss's market.

SpringingIntoAction · 10/03/2016 11:37

I agree Mouse. I posted it because there appeared to be some doubt as to whether wage depression was linked to the availability of EU migrant labour, so I thought the best person to illustrate this point was the leader of the Remain campaign.

If we don't LEAVE we will be moving ever closer to a society in which an elite owns the housing as ordinary workers will never be able to afford to buy and will be at the mercy of high rents. We've reached that stage already in many parts of the UK. Welcome to EU serfdom.

1234Littleham · 10/03/2016 11:39

Still perched on the fence looking at the devil on one side and the deep blue sea on the other.

Peppergrinder2016 · 10/03/2016 12:07

From today's Times

"John Whittingdale is culture secretary

As a schoolboy, I campaigned in the 1975 referendum for Britain to stay in what was then the Common Market. I did so because I have always believed in the benefits of free trade. I was also reassured by the clear promise that the sovereignty of parliament would be unaffected. A government leaflet delivered through every door stated that, “No important new policy can be decided in Brussels or anywhere else without the consent of a British minister answerable to a British government and British parliament”.

That key principle has been steadily eroded. The introduction of qualified majority voting that allowed member states to be overruled has been extended into more areas under successive treaty changes. Time and again, we are told that we must implement directives from Brussels that are against our national interest and that we opposed. At the same time, we are told that we cannot make changes to our own legislation because to do so will be in breach of European law.

I hoped that it would be possible for us to negotiate a new relationship with the EU but this has proved impossible. The outcome of the prime minister’s negotiations does represent an improvement. However, it falls a long way short of the new arrangement I would like to see. In particular, it still means our courts and parliament have to comply with decisions taken in Brussels, and that we have no ability to control our borders. The only way we can regain control over these areas is by negotiating new agreements with Europe from outside the EU.

There will be much debate about what life would be like after Brexit. Some are drawing comparisons with the arrangements for Norway, Canada or Switzerland. However, we are like none of these countries. We are the fifth biggest economy in the world, one of five permanent members of the UN security council, a leading member of Nato and one of the G7.

Outside the EU, we will be free to negotiate trade deals not just with the EU but countries such as the US, China and India. We have a trade deficit with the rest of the EU of about £60 billion so it is very much in their interests that we quickly conclude a new free trade arrangement. However, we will no longer be required to impose regulations on business that add up to £33 billion. Nor will we have to go on sending over £350 million to Brussels each week and can instead spend that money on our own priorities.

This is why I am supporting the Vote Leave campaign. However, I am pleased that, thanks to the prime minister and this Conservative government, it is the British people who will decide."

And some articles about Turkey's position re: joining the EU

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484445/Turkey-blackmailed-Britain-migrant-crisis-backing-EU-membership-open-door-77-million-people-Tory-MPs-claim.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3484988/PM-sped-away-fast-rabbit-dog-track-QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-Cameron-dodge-row-Turks.html

MitzyLeFrouf · 10/03/2016 12:09

Two Daily Mail articles?

MitzyLeFrouf · 10/03/2016 12:10

Including the lovely Quentin Letts.

Fab.

Peppergrinder2016 · 10/03/2016 12:28

Sorry about that Mitzy....too much coffee this morning!!

LifeofI · 11/03/2016 03:20

The only people who should be voting to stay are rich people with businesses because they want cheap labour and long hours.
This is the one chance to vote out, if youre working class/middle class and voting to stay in i hope you will explain that to your granchildren when they cannot find a job, buy a house and living in a slum which was once britain because britain WILL go bankrupt if we stay in the EU.

I dont read newspapers
I dont listen to scare tactics
I see with my eyes and i see the change from when i was a teenager to now.

Vote out.

LifeofI · 11/03/2016 03:39

Dogge the nhs is a major factor to leave as well.
I came back from the dominican republic a few weeks ago and im 'sure' i had zika virus, had all the signs. I phoned my doctors to tell me i had to wait 3 weeks to be seen for a life threatening condition.
If i was an unhealthly person i would be dead, i managed to cure myself after spending a week in bed, i couldnt even bare to go to A and E i know it would of been worse.
Last time i was in A and E i was in the middle of having a miscarriage, 4 hours later after arriving in the priority A and E cause i came in an abulance still not seen i ended up walking out.
I would rather die than go to A and E
Its got that ridiculous

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 11/03/2016 04:36

It does make me laugh that on the day Dave is accusing the leave camp of thinking peoples jobs are a worthwhile "collateral damage"..... the ECB introduces negative interest rates and ups the rate of printing money in order to revive the moribund EU economy...

I do not understand why Cameron is saying we should pitch our future in with a failing and sluggish economic block. He talks about a step into the dark. I rather think alligning yourself to a failing economy is a huge risk.

2016IsANewYearforMe · 11/03/2016 08:31

I cannot see the LEAVE vote prevailing. They came close in Scotland by appealing to a Scottish sense of pride and identity. Without someone in the LEAVE camp finding a way to appeal to latent English nationalism, I don't think they will stir up enough votes. If they find a way to talk about "this green and pleasant land," Agincourt, and the Blitz, AND they can sound like Churchill rather than Hitler while they do it, they might pull it off. At the moment, I predict LEAVE will lose by a landslide.

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 11/03/2016 08:45

Smarties..
There is one considerable difference between this and the Scottish referendum. The Actof union was three hundred years ago. There is. o one alive who remembers Scotland as a separate country.

Today there are a lot of people who remember this country as a sovereign nation that fought a very nasty war to avoid being run by and under the cosh of a rampant Germany. And if we didn't fight ourselves our parents were caupght up. My partner's parents fought and lost friends in that terrible war.

Today, we are being told what to do by an institution that seems to be run for the benefit of that very same country we fought. If we are going to be run by an EU dominated by Germany. ... why did we bother?

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 11/03/2016 08:47

I do wish we could edit even for a short whils..
i am a terrible typist on a tablet .. and I addresses the wrong person...

Twinsareplenty · 11/03/2016 08:54

I think now the euro central bank has taken some absolutely desperate measures the Euro is now confirmed as officially broken.
This site is good - not the usual media drivel - order-order.com/section/euro-guido/

DaggerEyes · 11/03/2016 10:14

2016is, do you believe the polls saying remain is in the lead then? I see lots of those 'click to vote' polls which have leave massively in the lead, and even the bookies are taking the most bets on leave (while still having longer odds on it). Every news comment section is awash with leave comments, and everyone I dare ask us a leave voter. WHERE are the ones who say to remain? Is remain the shy side, or am I just massively out of touch?

2016IsANewYearforMe · 11/03/2016 11:07

I think people less passionate, and therefore not online chatting about the referendum, are likely to vote Remain. I think the unsure are likely to vote Remain when it comes to the crunch.