Quick Poll: EU stay or leave?

[BlueSmarties76]

Would you vote to stay or leave the EU?

Quick poll.

I'd love if Ireland had a referendum too.
I'd vote to leave.

I'm afraid that would be a waste of even more Euros as Ireland would never vote to leave.

Undecided but the following stories are concerning

Huge benefits racket probe involving hundreds of Bangladeshi migrants with European Union passports
link

Foreign nationals who claim they are living in the UK are obtaining free European health insurance cards (Ehic) to charge the UK for treatment in their home countries
link

John Mann, the Labour MP says that the official figures show the NHS paid £647 million to European countries last year, but received only £49 million in return.
The NHS cannot afford to haemorrhage money like this. This is money that is not available to provide treatment to those who have paid into the system for decades.

Ireland gets far too much out of the EU and pays very little in comparatively.

We have a friend who is a farmer in Ireland and he gets a fortune in EU subsidies.

Leave

If the UK leaves and Ireland stays in, does that not mean that a lot of people may start trying to get into the UK via Ireland...?

Leave - certainly before abhorrent Turkey join.

Very hard question. Splitting people up by nation has real problems.
However, the control of the super-rich and increasingly world-wide money systems is helped by the breakdown of national boundaries. So, though it pains me to agree with Nigel F or Liz W on anything, it's a "leave" from me.

Apparently you can get an Irish (EU) passport just because your parent was born somewhere on the island of Ireland - could be NI.

If so, then that's even better - you can have dual nationality if you ever decide that an EU passport would be useful even if you prefer to live in a non-EU UK.

Leave
I don't think it will solve all our problems but at least we will make/ be responsible for our own mistakes

These are some simple questions I've posed to myself to determine In or Out. Perhaps they'll be useful for others.

Who do I want to run the UK?
A) British politicians (whether Lab or Con or whatever)
B) EU politicians (Merkel / Juncker / Tusk / Barroso)

What matters more to me?
A) GDP, economic issues, corporate profit
B) Sovereignty and democracy

Which worries me more?
A) Economic uncertainty and other EU countries exacting revenge post-Brexit via punitive trade deals
B) Massive immigration, the migrant crisis and Turkey's future to accession to the EU

What stirs me more?
A) The idealism of a Federal Europe, ever closer union and a continent without Borders where anyone can work or settle in any country
B) Sovereign nation states determining their own laws, customs and futures based on the will of their People

And, again in the light of Turkey's promised visa-free access in June plus future accession, which country would I prefer the UK to have a border with?
A) France
B) Syria

I said on another thread that the arguments over the economic effects of Brexit are so hotly contested by both sides that they cancel eachother out. The fact is even the experts don't know what the real effects would be. Therefore in order to make a decision I feel one has to focus on all the other issues in play. Simple heuristic questions like the above have helped me to crystallise my view.

Leave

In light of Europes handling of recent major issues - the financial crisis, border security/ terror threats and now migration, I cannot see any evidence that being part of this club has been beneficial to the UK.

Great post Scatteroflight

I will be voting to leave.

Great set of questions scatteroflight. I think the Leave campaign should hire you. They are doing a terrible job.

What matters more to me?
A) GDP, economic issues, corporate profit
B) Sovereignty and democracy

I think this question isn't quite right. The Remain side want people to believe that the UK will be financially worse off outside the EU, but that doesn't make it true.

There are a lot of reasons why the short and medium term economic future inside the EU will not be good. Here are two big ones:-

1. The euro is a million miles from being sorted out. In fact, it is still on a path to complete collapse. Whilst we are tied into a trading block that is grappling with that, there won't be much growth to be had.

1. The EU is unbelievably slow moving and protectionist for French farmers etc. They aren't an organisation that you'd want making your trade deals for you. TTIP is a looming problem that we can only swerve by leaving.

LEAVE

absolutely.

tons of my reasons have been stated already on this thread but i think the key words are "EVER CLOSER". this is our one chance to get out and the only alternative is a single currency and further and further removed power structures.

there is no renogiating or status quo - EVER CLOSER. either you want to be a part of, today or tomorrow, a united states of europe or you don't.

also merkel, what they have done to greece whilst they had them over a barrel, and the farce of the paris attacks and what they revealed abotu security and the imminent reality of turkey joining will be the nails in the coffin.

i personally would have said leave anyway but that little cocktail will have a massive swing effect on those who'd normally stick with status quo out of fear. staying may seem more scary than leaving for the generally apathetic.

btw when people discuss this with me in real life (i'm in a very multi-cultural/national situation) they seem really, genuinely shocked that i'm a 'leave' vote.

i think people assume intelligent, liberal-ish, educated, travelled, traditionally to the left etc people are stay votes. i'm not.

"given Turkey's imminent accession?"

Imminent, no less?

Talks of "fast-tracking" Turkey's EU application is grand posturing on both sides. All EU members need to approve the accession of any new EU member and at the very least Greece and Cyprus will veto Turkey's.

It will never happen and everyone knows it.

i'm pretty sure greece has been beaten into doing as it's told now.

"Surely, we trade with the rest of the world if Europe isn't the best deal anymore."

Please take a look at a map of the world to check how far from the UK any other desirable trade zone actually is.

Turkey will never be an EU country, for a variety of reasons. Everybody knows this, including Turkey. FWIW, Turks are not as interested in joining the EU as they were a decade ago - economically, they have been doing much better than Europe for quite a while now, and they have also started to realise that EU means losing sovereignty.

This is all posturing. EU gets to keep Turkey close, hopefully preventing its possible alliance between Muslim countries or Russia, and Turkey's government receives a few concessions + gets to look like they are getting somewhere.

of course it will. if the greedy boys that be decide they want a cheap labour influx and birth rate boost then in they'll come.

"if the greedy boys that be decide they want a cheap labour influx "

Have you thought this through? If Turkey becomes an EU country, Turks' labour will cost as much as that of any other EU citizen.