Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Not only ostracised Will, killed. Fucking deluded bastards. www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/10/28/punished-for-being-raped-the-burden-of-women-under-sharia/

In that case any more GF posters will be reported by me. Thanks for the heads up.

Sharia courts are supported more by Pakistani Muslims in the uk than Arab Muslims culturally different

I was at times hasselled when I lived and travelled in Arab countries never was it seen as an acceptable thing to do though I know many women have had different experiences it's probably because I can speak a little Arabic and I am not western/blond told them to go away the public around were not accepting of his actions he was shamed - while here everyone turns away

It helps no one to make such sweeping statements that are simply false

All religions are sexiest but not all people are even if they are a follower of their faith and not all Arab men view women as whores

Rape is a crime and no a women/girl would not necessarily be ostracised though she may within certain groups but she will no doubt be asked what she was doing/wearing and that attitude sadly is the same here

GF posters?

Helptheanimalsfirst; how do you identify whether posters are male or female (unless they say so)? I've often wondered also how posters know that someone's a PBP. I clearly don't know my way around Mumsnet

Help, I am not a bloke lol. Pfffft. Woman states views to your own. 'She must be a man!' Your spidey senses are way off. What would I be working for? I have stated the need for unified response to attacks on women of a sexual nature across the board, regardless of backgrounds of offenders. Whatever our backgrounds, we are all the same more than we are different. I do not believe that my values are so different to those from 'other cultures.' I think we want a lot of the same things and most of us don't want women to be attacked. We want it to be noticed when they are we want the culprits punished. Most of all, we don't want it to happen in the first place. We don't want silence and denial. What is so 'provocative' about that? Is it the way that I don't make links to the dangers of immigration etc that upsets you you poor lamb?

Enthusiasm, this is the kind of generalising on this thread that has been getting on my tits, so to speak, although says I don't have any. I'm glad someone else is picking up on it.

'What a statement. You really think all men in Arab countries are given the right to act like animals and all think it's ok and it's accepted.'

The running theme on the past three threads has been the assumption that many countries are the same, share the same language and culture etc, when they don't.

This song against sexual harassment is doing the rounds.

Emily there are countries where women arent treated equally, no we can't assume that everyone in that country holds the same views , but what about for example countries where it is illegal to drive if you are a female.

Enthusiam:
Did you ever go to Tunisia?
I've still got the bruises on my arse from Sousse market.

I agree Emily

I am quite critical of the religion at times (and others but they don't often get debated) and of all cultures and our inability to not challenge for fear of being accused racist

But these statements are ignorant

I have meet the kindest and most giving people who also happen to be not only Muslim but some are Arab too. I have family and friends who are Muslim not all are lovely people some stuck in their ways but then so are some of my non Muslim family and friends

It seems impossible to believe that I am treated with respect by Arab men/Muslim men or would people rather believe I wasn't to fit in with their ideas

That is not to say there are not issues there are but these ignorant blanket statements help no one

Yes I lived there

It is shameful that too many men got away with hassling European women they certainly would not have Tunisian women

Have not rtft so apologies if this has already been exhaustively covered, but:

Something my OH read in an interview with an ex-ISIS fighter a while ago (I never managed to track down the link) suggested that ISIS are really threatened by western countries accepting refugees as it undermines them, belies their 'West are all nasty Muslim-haters' line at home, and gives people an 'attractive' alternative. Of course this could be selectively reported (can't trust anyone now )but if true it would make a kind of sense to carry out this sort of outrage to stir up Islamophobia and result in 'putting up the barriers'. Though ironically western society was not as outraged, initially at least, as they might have been hoping if it was indeed orchestrated by ISIS and intended as that kind of terrorism...

And it certainly does feel like terrorism, have been looking nervously at north African looking men out at the shops today, I can't help myself and that pisses me off. And worrying about dd leaving home in a few years. So that's my head f*d with a bit.

But another thought that popped into my head was, do young single men all over the world including the assailants in Cologne etc, spend a lot of time looking at porn on their phones? And might that have contributed to their apparent anger/violence. That idea gives me the chills, I must say.

I hate not understanding where this comes from, I hate the thoughts and fears it sends swirling round my head. Ugh ugh ugh. Thanks everyone for this thread.

It's Saudi where women are not allowed to drive

Ask other Arabs what they think of the Saudi regime you will be surprised

Or you could just think they are all the same because they speak Arabic as a first language

"Whatever our backgrounds, we are all the same more than we are different. I do not believe that my values are so different to those from 'other cultures.'"

Really. Because I don't want to live in that world. I don't want to live in a world where it is denied that there ARE differences. That there ARE societies where it is acceptable to rape. (Sky recently did a report on this in one of the African countries iirc the other night) There are countries where having a disability means that you are not allowed to go eat in a restaurant without being ask to leave because you were upsetting the other customers. There are countries where girls can't get an education. I want to live in a world where we accept that this is what it is and then move forwards in a manner to stop it happening. Because my values say that this is wrong to rape, it is wrong to deny education based on gender or disability, and just because someone is disabled they should not be discriminated against.

And it doesn't mean to say that say that I think that the individuals of the society believe or feel like this. Just that it is not challenged and stopped so thus accepted

grimbletart. I cannot tell you here, but I had my suspicions and did an analysis of posts. It's not the male-or-female thing that concerns me, but the people or purpose these posters are working for.

It seems impossible to believe that I am treated with respect by Arab men/Muslim men or would people rather believe I wasn't to fit in with their ideas

no I have been treated very kindly too by arab men/muslim men,

however you cannot dismiss the whole background culture, laws, every day life, is sexist, dismissive and loaded against women!

The running theme on the past three threads has been the assumption that many countries are the same, share the same language and culture etc, when they don't.

Spot on.

And I really do wish people would understand that Arabic is a language and not a race - that would be Arab.

Emily, you are still minimising. You posted

"From the Guardian, 'About 100 complaints have now been made to police, two-thirds of which are linked to sexual assault, including two rapes."

Are the guardian really still saying that there have only been 100 complaints? Or did you selectively use that quote to make the number seem less than the OVER 500 that are now reported? I suppose that might make your comparison to the 15 or so assaults reported over 3 weeks of Oktoberfest look a little less ridiculous.

Pinkchamp, you stated

'I do think that we can make this a women's issue, rather than merely an immigration issue as all violence against women is unacceptable.

'The events from NYE can be presented as a springboard so to speak, a focusing event' which in policy making is a significant event which shapes people's opinion on a matter.

Campaign for an end to all violence against women, up the ante on this across all issues including immigration, intimate partner violence, sex trafficking (!!!!!!).'

I think you're right, apart from the focus on immigration. I hopeit will be that springboard, when people say enough is enough.

There's been quite a number of refugees simply disappearing. I suppose that is tied to the trafficking.

Cellardoor, No. I remember this was when I was comparing Oktoberfest to Cologne. I stated that in both cases the instances of assault could be higher but not recorded. It was said in many of the articles about Oktoberfest that many more victims are more likely, but were probably reluctant to go to police. The articles I posted on Oktoberfest shpwed variations from year to year. Some years attacks were much higher than others. I think the Guardian number is the recorded complaints.

But I am not so interested in quibbling over numbers. My earlier point I was making was that this kind of attack is not new. Public assault and groping is not new. Whether it is on the same scale of Cologne at new year or not, it is very signiicant that for some time concerns have been raised over 'running a gauntlet' of groping hands and that they have not been taken seriously. That's not reallyminimising or whataboutism. Concerns have been raised before about the attacks at Oktoberest, with people angry because it went against the values of their society. Women in Cologne have been protesting over this and the recent attacks. I

"But another thought that popped into my head was, do young single men all over the world including the assailants in Cologne etc, spend a lot of time looking at porn on their phones? And might that have contributed to their apparent anger/violence. That idea gives me the chills, I must say." Dee
I made a reference to porn very early on in thread 1. Someone responded that porn is does not affect men who are raised to respect women quite so badly. Not sure..

Wild I hear you, I do and I can relate to your anger wrt covering sex abuse and Church and refusing to allow that to happen again in a different context.

I have said all along that ME / Muslim attitudes to women are largely misogynist, but I know good men and women from some of the countries we are talking about who have either fled their country or moved to Europe for honest work, who are highly educated and westernised but still bring in enriching aspects of their culture into our lives. Others are perhaps not that educated but decent and hard working, which is all great.

I wouldn't like a totally homogenous society and in our global age that is not possible anyway. But in all our diversity there must be some basic rules of conduct golden rules.

Equal rights for women should be promoted massively across all sectors and should be at the heart of EU policy. I agree that Europe still has a way to go wrt equality.

no I wouldn't deny and haven't denied that there is sexism in Muslim and arab countries but they do differ greatly

they are evolving and progressing sadly some not as quickly as others and since the arab spring there seems to be a step back

I have to say all this has just confirmed to me that the UK has had the right attitude to taking in refugees. Taking vetted refugees from camps near Syria, prioritising those in most risk, minority groups, the sick, the disabled.

A lot of the response seems to be driven by residual guilt that we didn't respond to the Jews in WW2 properly. Some people seem to think that this means we should let anyone who says they want asylum in regardless. This is a stupid solution which wouldn't have worked in WW2 and won't work now.

The response of the UK now would also have worked pre-WW2. Establish if someone is gay, Jewish, Roma, disabled etc and allow them in.

What Europe is doing is akin to us in the 30s saying any German would be allowed in no questions asked. No regard for if they were in an at risk group or if they held views which supported the Nazis but just didn't fancy staying somewhere conflict was occurring. And what would have happened to Jews here if we'd imported anti-Semites? We probably would have lost the war if we'd done that.

If you offer asylum to anybody, without differentiating between those at risk and those who pose a risk you're just going to end up importing what those most at risk are running from. And then you haven't given asylum to anybody, you've just put a whole lot more people at risk.

What Europe is doing is stupid. I'm not against asylum but I want it to be given to those at greatest risk who also pose the least risk to us. And pumping lots of money to support the rest in situ. But the current situation is stupid, dangerous and just increasing the number of people in danger.

Cellar, as far as I can see from the reporting in the Guardian today, they are slanting the reporting to say that it was a series of robberies, some of which may have included some incidental sexual assaults which don't really matter, because apparently sexual assaults done for the purpose of robbery are a lot less serious.

Its not just ME countries either.

Not all countries across the EU have the same ideals and values that we have!