Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

But they're not posing as anything. They are asylum seekers.

The point is, you CAN NOT change their attitude. That is my point. It would take about 5 generations to change their attitude. And even then, that is highly unlikely if they continue to follow Islam through the 5 generations.

My practical solution is as follows:

Extremism should become a crime.
Stop deluding ourselves that their culture is compatible with ours. You can not catch up by centuries in a few years.

Deport anyone who refuses to accept our laws, values and culture. Instant deportation for any crime, no matter how petty.
Enable Muslim women.
Intervene at an educational level, in their own countries. Preferrably by enabling women.

Stop bombing them.

'The price of peace is eternal vigilance'

The moderate peoples of Europe assume that everyone is as they are - reasonable, humane, accommodating etc.

They assume that all belief systems are as modern Christianity is (notice I use the term 'modern' before anybody jumps on me) friendly, forgiving, cooperative etc.

Ignorance and naivety has led them to this position. In their liberal, self-congratulatory fog they have stumbled into a nightmare of immense proportions by allowing people who don't share their common values to enter their space and cause havoc.

Sentimental handwringing has taken the place of logical and rational thinking and planning. As ever, emotions get in the way and have led to this.

There's no going back now. This will only spread and spread. Women are bottom of the pile and our voice will be lost amongst the left vs right vs what the hell do we do now noise.

Europe is fucked. Women are fucked. For what? An imaginary being and a set of hostile political ideals.

We might as well be living back in the caves scrawling symbols on the sides of them and worrying about who's coming over the brow of the hill to kill us. We are no further forward. Well done Homo sapiens, what a pile of shite.

YesEinsteinsMum "Forgive me if i have misinterpreted what you meant by that statement and feel free to clarify. Might be a while monitoring two individuals who require regular but not constant attention."

I think we have both misunderstood each other! No harm done. All I wanted to point out - should the authorities try to criticise the women for not being au fait with clothing that might inflame passions of our new guests - is that it is winter and they were well covered up.

Little point in debating with the two individuals. They are experienced provocateurs who want this thread to end thru our exasperation. I recognise the tactics used in studio TV and radio debates.

We would like the Government to debate the safety of Women. That Politicians, Police, media, organisations and individuals re examine their attitudes to sexual assaults on Women.

It has been distressing after the coordinated terror on Women, NewYear events in Germany, to see the extent of minimising and victim blaming to the point there is serious discussion of a cerfew on Women.

Abetadad

I don't think they were just criminals. I still think there was organisation in this. And if there wasn't, then there are much deeper cultural issues at play here such that a Tahir Sq -like event was repeated over cities and countries. TBH, I don't want to think either, but I can find no other explanations for the facts

I think a petition needs to avoid mention of Men or refugees.

There are too many elephants in the room vertigo I don't know how you would phrase such a petition in order to get the message across. The elephants have sat on and squashed all the available words

hiddenhome "The moderate peoples of Europe assume that everyone is as they are - reasonable, humane, accommodating etc.

Ignorance and naivety has led them to this position. In their liberal, self-congratulatory fog they have stumbled into a nightmare of immense proportions by allowing people who don't share their common values to enter their space and cause havoc."

Excellently put and spot on. Unfortunately people do assume that everyone is like them - both in their personal relationships and in this sort of context. It took me a few years to understand that that while we view kindness & mercy as a Strength, other cultures view it is a weakness to be used for their own selfish ends.

Despicable - one sentence I agree with in the report.

"...a hysterical mood that is making a monster out of what was already a nightmare."

Hysteria is what is happening. Cool heads, analysis, evidence, data, diagnosis, prosecution, action are all required here.

There is no chance of that happening in the current atmosphere. Its polarising into left and right politics. No doubt too a lot of EU politicians/technocrats will do everything to play this down to keep the EU project on course. The EU is itself under threat here of breaking up and don't believe that 500 sexually assaulted women matter more than keeping the EU borders open and Shengen intact.

AbetaDad politics has not taken over. Politics IS the problem.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst it is one of those things that is easy to misinterpret on a fast moving pace and with internet discussion. The fact that we are in agreement over the stupidity of the whole sugestion is heartening even if it took a while to understand each other

DespicableBee, he is saying that the attitude of some Germans is like they are naughty children When he refers to 'mess' he means the attacks, that some Germans were naive in not expecting that some of them may be criminals.

He is correct up to a point. In welcoming refugees there is an error in viewing them all as intrinsically good, just as there is an error in viewing them as mostly bad. Yet however realistic someone is, stating that Germans ought to have been expecting that large scale sex crimes as an inevitability is a bit of a stretch.

'Mess' is a big swerve of the issue.

Absolutely, others use it as a weakness animals

Only people who have an understanding of human nature can get their heads round this though. This understanding seems to evade a lot of people. I don't know why.

Abetadad. I dont think they were just lowlifes either. They may well be part of drug & people smuggling, street robberies and whatever else but I doubt that lowlife crims would (i) cooperate with each other to this degree, or (ii) simply be discipined enough to be that well organised.
It was a HATE crime based on gender, anti-Europeanism and hating The Other.

Attacks appear to be planned, says Justice Minister

www.cbc.ca/news/world/cologne-assaults-1.3397483

I have commented on the article, but to repeat here, that guardian journalist's point about visa documents being a plastic card is disingenuous. It is a plastic card backed up by a paper document. Perfectly possible to rip it up.

Emily no no no no you are SO wrong.

"Causing a mess on the streets" is clearly meant as a night-out-in-Manchester vomit and broken glass mess on the streets.

Which to compare to 400 women being assaulted is just.... no words.

I think we often have a problem separating Muslims from the religion and being individual. Arabs as being individual or North African Arabs but at the same time we are quick to separate a terrorist from being a Muslim - he/she is no Muslim well actually they are/were but their acts were not Islamic. actions and beliefs do not equal what you are though apparently in most if not all religions they should

And we have a similar issue with refugees. All refugees are good people humble and thankful. No they are not some refugees have connections with ISIS (this argument came up after the Paris bombing with cries they are not real refugees how can they be separated) some will have been fighting and committed awful crimes in Syria, some will be rapists (unknown to anyone else but their victim) and so on we are talking about very large numbers of people

The North Africans won't be refugees, but not NA will behave like this, some Syrian refugees that have always lived an honest life will get caught up some are angry and their anger is displaced all no excuses for their actions

One we do not want to touch on is their prejudice not against women we quick to point out that they see women as second class citizens (doubt all will see Muslim and non Muslim women as equal) but their attitude toward the west on a whole and of western woman. To some have lose morals that are not to be respected

It is not racist to point out that in some cultures women are not always equal, that abuse is often not challenged or excused, that non Muslims are often considered inferior.

We didn't want to challenge DV and sexual crimes within the Somali community and still don't to our shame and how many girls have suffered FGM because of this

We have to not fear being accused of prejudice or racist it seems to freeze us and stops us challenging behaviour that is not acceptable in a progressive country that we are. We also have to stop fearing fuelling the right wing and just tackle this head on

How well there is not one answer but the quicker we move in from our hang ups the better we can deal with this very very serious problem

Dear Minister X

The events in Cologne on New Year's Eve 2015 have brought to the fore of my mind, a serious issue with regards to integration of people of Arab culture with people of European or Western culture.

It has exemplified the incompatibility of our two cultures.

It has also raised the question of whether this new modus operandi is a new war tactic. It has furthermore highlighted how fragile our current liberties are in Western society.

This criminal behaviour and, dare I say it 'trend', must be examined, scrutinised, debated and mitigated for. It must be discussed and legislated for at a local level, at a national level and at a European level.

These incidents have also initiated a discussion as to whether we should be branded racist for openly discussing a cultural or race issue. Should we?

It appears to be an attack on everything we as a Western society stand for. Liberty? Women are advised to effectively stay at home in order to stay safe. Equality? If you're a woman, or worse still - a white non-Muslim woman, you are an infidel and a whore, ripe for a grope, a finger in your orifice or full-on rape. Apologies for the graphic detail, but this allegedly is what happened on New Year's Eve. If it's uncomfortable to read the detail, imagine how feels to experience it?

This is not a once-off scenario I believe. I believe rather, that this is the start of a different kind of terrrorism.

Why am I contacting you?

I am contacting you because I am a woman. I am contacting you because I have a young daughter. I am contacting you because you were elected by a democratic vote to represent your people.

I do not want our fragile rights as women to be eroded in a decade. In one decade, my daughter will be 21. I do not want to see a time where my daughter is afraid to dress in a mini-skirt and go to a disco. I do not want to see a time where my daughter is afraid to be in a crowded place. I do not want to have to see my daughter come back from a festival, in tears having being groped by a gang of women-hating men. I do not want to see a return to a dark and sad time for women. We have come a long way, with much thanks to the ladies who went before us.

So, what can we do?

What I can do as a European citizen is voice my concerns to you. I can also link you to a rebust discussion on this issue - 3000 posts. A lot of food for thought by intelligent articulate women who feel incredibly passionate (and fearful) about this problem. Because it is a problem. It is an issue. A serious issue.

What can you, as Minister do?

What you can do as Minister and as my representative at a political level is to discuss immigration policy, policing and legislation - in the Dáil. You know what the issues are. Some of the issues need tact to dance around, but I expect you to use your best dance moves in order to fully address the serious and blatantly obvious issues at play here. Do your research. Construct a coherent basis for discussion. Raise this issue. For 50% of your electorate.

to threads

Yours faithfully etc...

polenta - this part of the cbc report caught my eye:

""Our clients are modern nomads," attorney Ingo Lindemann told the newspaper. "They're not war refugees but more like grown street children who move with the flow of refugees across Europe."

That is exactly what I have bene saying upthread. Rootless low life criminals moving with the flow of people from various countries. Some in organised gangs, some on the edges of gangs, some being drawn in as onlookers. Loosely organised crowds of young men hanging around on NYE looking for trouble, getting drunk, abusing women to varying degrees of severity, robbing, drug dealing, throwing fireworks/bottles, causing mayhem. Then no doubt moving on or slipping back into the refugee/immigrant community.

"Wilde"
Personally I think this goes too far. I'm not for Arab bashing or anything similar. I am concerned about women's rights and the obvious issue of our rights being squashed because abuses of them by some 'groups' because the politics are too difficult to be dealt with openly. I want an open and frank debate, not 'oh we can't talk about that as it's making me feel uncomfortable. That includes discussion of integration issues etc. I think your letter is very well written but personally I would avoid 'clash of culture' type phrases. Just my thoughts

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point but many of these gangs have been in Europe for many years ad we have not had the 'organised' element that we saw across cities and countries on NYE. I think the sexual assualt element was planned.

The EU is itself under threat here of breaking up and don't believe that 500 sexually assaulted women matter more than keeping the EU borders open and Shengen intact.

Hmm. I always thought I was a pragmatically ruthless type, able to sacrifice sentiment in pursuit of higher goals but holy sh*t that's cold.

I don't know how representative Egypt is of North Africa and the ME but this report on Sky today

www.news.sky.com/story/1619941/educating-drivers-how-not-to-sexually-harass

would suggest that if it is, culture attitudes are one of the reasons behind the mob attack in Cologne and other cities.

Such is the attitude of men (NAMALT) in Egypt to women that Uber is now giving all list drivers lessons on sexual assault, harassment etc. - the first country in the world where this is being done. The mind boggles when taxi drivers have to be taught not to assault their passengers.

A woman entrepreneur, admittedly spotting a business opportunity, has started up a taxi firm with female drivers and taking only female passengers.

Now I know Egypt is notorious harassing women (that's a fact, not me making something up) - UN survey in 2013 found 99% of women had suffered harassment or assault, but if this is at all indicative of other North African and ME attitudes to women then European countries have some serious educating to do.

No problem polentapies - thank you for your input. These are however my views on the subject and the issues which need to be addressed.

I'm Irish and come from a society and era where the issue (abhorrent abuses by nuns and priests) was not allowed to be discussed.

I'm not going to be a generation who allows us to 'skirt' around a similar elephant in the room.

But what if they are not low life criminals? What if they are just young men who have decided to make the journey to Europe for a better life? They just happen to be brought up in a culture where they gave been told over and over again from birth that women are whores and temptresses and its not their fault if they cannot control their sexual urges if women don't cover up? Every man who gropes a woman in Egypt and parts of the Arab world is not a criminal in their own country. They are doing what is commonplace and accepted. They then come here and there are thousands of women just wandering round 'asking for it' because they are whores. And it must be OK because absolutely nobody did anything about it.