Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

twisted you give an emotive picture of what the backgrounds of these men could have been whilst utterly ignoring the fact that they were from Algeria, Morocco etc. They were not all fleeing war torn countries, so check your facts before you feel moved to comment.

The calls of racist are so wide of the mark it would almost be funny if it weren't so dangerous. I've worn hijab in the past, in fact I was broadly in favour of the migration policy until NYE happened. This thread has been an education and I for one have felt the scales falling from my eyes.

Thank you the rest of you women for the stimulating discussion.

onthephone indeed. Some of the men could just has easily have been criminals in their society, or committed war crimes. The problem is, we just don't know.
TheNewStatemen as my brother so succinctly put it, the devil makes work for idle hands.

I have always been in favour of migration, and of the compassionate treatment of asylum seekers. I've been very outspoken in the past about keeping women and children in detention centers.
I started feeling a vague disquiet over summer with the Calais coverage, due to the large numbers of young men, and reports of general and sexual violence.
This disquiet has been thoroughly clarified by the New Year events in Cologne and other places.

Slaggy i feel exactly the same. I also felt disquiet at the large percentage of men coming over but was thinking more along the lines of "what's happening to their wives and children?".

I didn't even envisage this happening. I can't get over what those poor girls went through and the insensitivity of the mayor's remarks.

Emily, in the interests of getting things done can we put things to rest? You think we're being racist. We think we're not and have explained over and over why not. You haven't agreed. So if being called racist is the burden we have to bear in order to get people openly talking about sexual violence then so be it.

Morning,
"At the end of thread two we were making plans. People were talking of MP/MEP emails and social media. Anyone want to see that through or do you want to keep going round the roundabout?"

Yes i would love to get back on track.

I do wonder if a gay man had been chucked off a building in mob rule would the media of been allowed to discuss culture or will it be that all men commit crimes against gays so do not pin point blame. I am for rooting out the issues and treating them, not hiding them in fear of upset. It will be lack of honest conversations, the fear of being racist and the fear of being sneered at that leads to vigilantes. Women should not need the far right to protect if they do then I would say we our already screwed and already possession to be won or lost.

How are we ever going to achieve anything when others keep trying to shut us up? I'm in with getting back on track, I'm not here to argue the pro's and cons of immigration.

I have read all three threads, some really good points, I'm so shocked by what's happened in cologne and many other German and Scandinavian cities. We need to discuss this, talk about it in the open, not sweep it under the carpet due to fear of appearing racist, like Rotherham etc. No one can deny, although the police and press tried to for five days, that these terrible attacks were carried out by men of Arab or north African appearance. That is what all the victims said, so we must listen to them. The police have since released some of the countries the men were from, the majority of the men arrested were asylum seekers, so far.I'm sure in weeks to come many more will be arrested. This was an attack on German women, I havnt heard reports of any German men being mugged or sexually assaulted. We need to discuss this, discuss the culture of these men as it is very relevant. Cultures where women arent treated as equals.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3392189/SAIRA-KHAN-Asian-woman-know-misogyny-well.html
A good read

"And here's me thinking that if someone lets you live in their country, you're actually pleasant to them in return. It's just manners and respect after all."

Totally agree, hiddenhome2. My parents were refugees many years ago and they were just glad to have found somewhere safe.

But what exactly can we do? Especially when this happened in Germany not here?

What can we do to bring attention to it without attacking immigrants?

Which feminist groups are protesting about it in Germany? Is there any way to contact them?

The only thing we can legitimately complain about here is the media cover up. And how to do that?

Personally I would like to discuss this and take action, emailing MP's, etc, make sure there isn't a cover up.one thing we could do is to try and keep it in the news, you can do this by looking at news websites, eg BBC or guardian or other news pages where at the bottom they have top ten most popular stories, if we continually click on the stories related to cologne they will more likely to be in top ten, this has been done before so it isn't impossible. I would like to emails politicians also you can email corbyn for a question to ask Cameron.we need our politicians to discuss this, we are part of Europe, we have immigration , I want women's rights discussed in relation to this.let's do something

Let's do something.....

Love the Voltaire thing, hidden ..... I'd quite forgotten it. Fab.
2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16 2 ♀16

This has happened here...Rotherham

I'm marching on the 17th

On a different note I found the Islamist /Feminist video linked to upthread quite disturbing possibly because there is some truth in it. I want a different kind of 'feminism' to that referred to so satirically in the video.

I suggested at the end of thread II that I would like to see a move away from an academic, intellectual and theoretical feminism to a more practical approach to women's rights. A 'movement' (not sure what this would mean at this point in time) that isn't just accessible to Media / Social Sciences / etc. graduates who love to show us all how clever they are and alienate most women and men in the process. Women's rights are for all women not just the Urban intellectual elite.

I think the events at the start of 2016 are a stark reminder that women's place in society is fragile. I will read through the suggested letter to MPs.

May i ask can anyone see any fundamental issues with the 2♀16 symbol? I am very aware that we have no plan or programme.

However do we somewhat agree that:

• The mass attacks on women across Europe and the tendency of politicians and the media to minimise the issue (in this case minimise the criminal behaviour of groups of male immigrants) are scandalously dishonest and detrimental to women's safety and wellbeing?

• Political leaders suggesting women should 'stay at home' to be safe as (sexual) violence committed by some groups of migrants is currently not policeable is the wrong response and curtails women's freedom of movement. This surely must infringe on human rights?

• That social cohesion in a culturally diverse society (UK, Europe, global) cannot be sustained by means of gas lighting and censorship. The only group that will benefit from such an approach is the far right, which is every bit as disgusting as a mob of out of control immigrant men attacking women. This as the far right also attacks women (and of course men). A liberal, diverse society must be able to withstand scrutiny of the various cultural /religious etc factors and through open and transparent debate.

• Laws protecting women must be examined and, if necessary, brought up to date (not sure what this means in reality yet). There must not be no go areas in Europe where women cannot move for fear of being assaulted by male mobs, whatever their nationality.

• ...

I've not called anyone racist. I think that thinking about what has gone on to make someone so disturbed that they commit atrocity is essential in honest conversations about how to stop it happening again. It does not mean that islam can't be talked about. And the mix of global inequality, more localised inequality, vulnerable personalities and disturbing experiences is also essential to think about.

Of course I don't know about the individual backgrounds of the men who committed these crimes. But to not include in the discussion the fact that currently the world is so deeply unequal and that so many are starving to death, being tortured, raped and murdered and that this is why we are having what is being termed a 'refugee crisis' makes for an extraordinarily limited picture. It seems odd to me to talk about an honest conversation, but then treat different thoughts and perspectives as derailing and not welcomed. Deeply disturbed individuals committed these acts. So we do need to think about why they are so disturbed if we want the world to become safer for women and men.

I think that the expectation that migrants and refugees should be grateful for being allowed to share scraps of Western privilege probably doesn't help anyone either.

Great post, Slaggy

I went to bed last night, though I had plenty more to say to a certain poster who had pissed me off mightily. Sorry for taking part in the derail but I was rather cross. It's as if we have to write a disquisition explaining how we each think before we're allowed to say a word about this and NOT be accused of being racist/generalising/ignorant.

The thing is, anyone who discusses this issue is going to get a lot of this sort of thing. But if we don't discuss it, the far-right will take it as their own.

Having written to my MP yesterday, I'll find out who my MEP is today. I did ask yesterday if anybody who works in politics knows if it's better to write to or email an MP. I have a letter ready to go in the post, but I'll email if that would be as effective (and quicker).

"So we do need to think about why they are so disturbed if we want the world to become safer for women and men."

Ok twisted, as you obviously are passionate about this topic (and I am not saying global inequality is not an issue worth talking about) why don't you reflect on why these men are so 'disturbed' as you say and start a thread which is about this?

This thread is not about the poor "disturbed" men from north Africa. I fyou would like to discuss and find solutions to support disenfranchised men from North Africa, please do it on a thread dedicated to that.

Me thinks Luna and her other half are back with a vengeance.

Helsinki
Kirkkonumi
Vienna
Salzburg
Düsseldorf
Kalmar
Hamburg
Bielefeld
Frankfurt
Stuttgart
Zurich

Did someone post a template earlier? What exactly are we asking of our MEPs?

Blue thats a good article, than you

"I realised within five minutes what an idiot I had been – I was the only woman in this crowd. I was spotted and within minutes a group of men had circled me and hands were all over me while bodies pressed up against mine. I was rescued by our burly ‘fixer’ who carried me out. I was shaking and shocked – and I was angry at myself for being so naive after everything I had grown up with."

sounds familiar?

Ignore the posters who are going on about racism, just to get us to shut up, I won't shut up, I will keep talking about this issue, the fact that hundreds of sexual attacks against women have taken place across European cities, by men who come from cultures which don't treat women equally