Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

Deeply disturbed? No opportunistic, group acting, women hating, mickey takers is how I see them.

We can't go back and reprogramm respect into them. For a start there aren't the resources to try even if I believed it possible.
You sound a lovely person twisted , but the German authorities seem to be thinking on your lines and that on a governmental level is not going to work long terrm. It is frankly irresponsible. And preventing the police investigating sex assaults in the refugee centres themselves.

I have posted in sitestuff to ask that a representative of the BBC and Guardian be asked to come and do a webchat on this. Anyone interested in supporting me?
By the way, check out the latest BBC article. A masterpiece of spin
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35261460

theydon't, here you are. There's another version on about p3 of the thread which someone else sent off.

Women’s Rights and Immigration
As you will be aware, on New Year’s Eve in Cologne over a hundred women were sexually assaulted or robbed (or both) by a crowd of about 1,000 men, described as being of North African or Middle Eastern ethnicity. Similar things happened, on a smaller scale, in other German cities, in Helsinki and perhaps in Austria: the reports are varied.

That is, of course, part of what makes this whole story so concerning: that the press coverage and the political response have been so halting and uncertain that it is very difficult to establish exactly what happened. I can only assume that this is because nobody wants to be accused of being a racist – but if nobody in mainstream politics discusses this issue, it becomes even more of a gift to the far Right.

It is a huge issue. It’s part of the cultural clash between some immigrants and liberal western society, a clash that doesn’t only affect women, and which it is evident that we need to tackle. It worries me that this is such a problem in mainland Europe already, and I’m concerned that if we just sit back, it will become a problem here as well.

What happened in Cologne is appalling, and the press and political response is too. Women’s rights are put behind immigrant rights, and that just isn’t good enough. I want to know that my country, and other countries in Europe, can play their part in resolving the refugee crisis without my rights, my daughters’ rights, my friends’ rights, being downplayed or debased. If immigrants come from countries where women are subjugated – like many of those in the Islamic world, where the refugee crisis is centred – they must be made aware that things are different in Europe. As I understand it, immigrants who obtain citizenship in other European countries are then free to come here under current European laws. How long before something like Cologne’s New Year happens here?

I would like to ask you to tackle this issue head on, to raise it rather letting it be ignored or minimised. We need, as a country, to have an open debate about this issue, to establish that women’s rights are a key part of our culture. The solution is not, as women in Austria have been advised to do, to remain indoors at night. The solution is to bring this issue right into the open, and insist that our social norms and expectations are not diluted.

I hope to hear from you.

And Merkel's plan to use people traffickers as the German immigration and refugee service head has implications here. The EU vote!

In the interests of keeping the thread going to try and get to a point of a MN campaign, I did some internet reading last night and, together with two recent books I've read (Why nations fail; Guns, germs and steel), the following is hopefully a reasonable summary of the arguments on this thread:
To try and resolve the debate between people saying ' the Cologne should events should be viewed in the context of migration flows' and 'the Cologne events should not be viewed in the context of migration flows', it may be useful to ask:

1. Would the Cologne events have happened without migrants? The answer is 'yes'. Western societies have long had a sexual assault problem.
2. Would the scale and intensity have happened without migrants? The answer is 'no'. Police chiefs have described the events as 'unprecedented'. Multiple issues can and do exist simultaneously so to try and argue for the precedence of one over the other is pointless. No one side will win but the attempt to do so will stifle debate. Let's, for the moment, leave aside the issue of our societies' consistent fight with violence against women given that a great deal has already been said, written and debated about this. So, in relation to 2 above, it's worth looking at some issues around migration given that migrant flows are the factor that differentiates 1 from 2 above (I have used three sources primarily; the two books above and a Washington Post article by an American professor of social policy, which I read last night and which seemed fairly balanced. I used some other, lesser sources too). There is nothing new here and it has all been said before in many outlets, but it may help to concentrate the mind in terms of a MN campaign, which seems to have gone off the boil. The first thing to point out is that the level of migration that we are currently seeing into Europe is a fairly longstanding problem (as in, not just something that happened in 2015), and tends to come in 'waves' and is highly likely to continue for the foreseeable future:

Root causes of migration (all are inter-related)

1. War and life chances improvement - the migrants are a mix of those fleeing civil war and those wanting to improve their life chances. Most writers agree that these are not the poorest migrants because of the costs of migration. The people smuggling market is now worth over $1billion.
2. Ideological/religious revolutions - the Islamic world is currently in a state of flux as it is undergoing social change, e.g., women fighting for their rights. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has written about this, as have others.
3. Wealth disparity between Westernised and other countries. 'Why nations fail' discusses 'extractive' systems of government of these nations, which are authoritarian and anti-democratic as a cause of this (I am aware of the 'extractive' nature of imperialism too but it's a more difficult point to correct for several reasons so I won't discuss this here).
4. Related to 3 is globalisation - the spreading of knowledge and awareness of different, better possibilities in terms of life chances and quality of life
5. Lack of a coherent European policy to prevent the above - ALL writers agree that the European response, or, a lack of it, has been a humanitarian disaster. Evidence-based statistics show that once those seeking to better their life chances arrive in Europe (and clearly there is a debate to be had around this but as most writers agree that European nations won't have this debate, it's worth continuing discussing this issue), few of their expectations are met (due to a vacuum of a coherent domestic policy), which can lead to a breakdown in social cohesion. It's not necessarily the case that this will occur but Sweden and now Germany are examples of this.
6. Personally, I would add the self-serving meddling of our politicians, which is not the main factor in any of the above that any of the writers sought to mention, but I think it's it's there (unsurprisingly, few official sources written by policy think-tanks, for example, mentioned this). However, citizens can do little about this so it's not worth discussing further either.

So, what do we do? Some things we can't change at all such as religious changes or wealth disparity (at least, any time soon). It's unlikely that any western government will stop or reverse this level of migration in the foreseeable future although they could (globally, there are historical precedents for this). What we can do is ask our government (write to our MPs?) to formulate (in no particular order):

1. a decent domestic policy on migration so that migrants are not left rudderless once they arrive. It's the government's job to figure this out.
2. demand that migrants are fully integrated. Again, it's the government's job to ensure this.
3. prioritise women's safety

Oh that article you posted Carla makes me sick. Could it be any more wishy washy and apologetic? It focused far more on the fear of a backlash than on the trauma those girls went through. Sickening.

four, good post.
You have points there that I didn't think of or didn't make explicit.

379 attacks in cologne.... Still increasing as more women come forward
That's 379 attacks on women in one city, on one night, in one square,

Lumela fantastic thanks for that.

www.facebook.com/kitterscorner/videos/vb.100000434149902/1098797596811368/?type=2&theater

A video showing women potting against the attack. I found it uplifting and wish I could have participated.

onthephone is that a German march? It would be nice if details could be on the open web rather than the private Facebook. I can't access facebook, it's blocked.

This seems to be a fairly balanced media piece, though it still ignores the widespread nature of the NY attacks. It includes statistics on just how many women in the refugees' home countries are sexually assaulted, over 99% in one case. And these are the ideas we're importing (please note, ideas, not hereditary characteristics of 'race'). www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-new-year-sex-assaults-are-a-wake-up-call-all-women-have-the-right-to-feel-safe-a6804436.html

I do wish you'd leave off havng a go at Luna, Pink. If you think there was sock puppeting, report it in the usual manner. I think Luna explained where she was coming from and why. This Emily has not.

Thanks Lumela I have emailed my MP with a copy of your letter, I hope we get some response.

hello all
I have been reading these threads but felt a bit too "sunk" by the whole thing to post if you get my drift
I'm now wondering what James O'Brien said - I can't quite tell from the threads. I have met him a few times and it is shocking to me if he's minimised it or refused to admit cover up or thinks it's racist to allocate it to a group. He was quite good on the Rotherham issue so I'm wondering now....

if anyone can let me know, thanks in advance.

four- I think you might be derailing and should start your own thread.

This is just my musings.... but what happened to many of those women would legally be classified as rape in some countries, although not Germany. By that definition, there was the mass rape of German women, in a public place, on NYE.
Seventy years ago, German women suffered mass rapes at the hands of Soviet troops. I cannot believe that something similar has happened to them in 2015/16.

I thought four's post was good and on-point.

Another "like" for *Four's" post.

Four, thank you for that excellent summary.

The Koln attacks came up yesterday at a dinner I attended. A CEO said he thought it was a bit of a storm in a teacup (I paraphrase).

Out of interest, I asked him about a situation I read about here on MN last year, when a female instructor was removed from a course because two men (of the cultural background we are debating here) had refused to do the course.

He said that sort if thing was not uncommon and in many organisations, the men would be signed 'off sick' until an acceptable (ie male) instructor could be found. He thought that an elegant solution and was taken aback by my response.

I am therefore proposing that long-term,bee also target industry in our campaign for awareness raising, reform and education regarding women's rights versus cultural sensitivities/terrorism.

I like the MP letter but I wonder if we should be asking for some quantifiable action at the end. Questions tabled? A committee formed?

Thinking aloud and very grateful that this discussion, despite heroic attention to derail, pushes on.

Jakeandtheweather, 'gnore the posters who are going on about racism, just to get us to shut up', I've been told off for ferialing and to f off numerous times. I haven't seen anyone say that to those supporting views that Islam is responsible for this. Again,if you think people disagreeing with you is people tryng to silence you, then you can't cope with debate.

Lorelai, JamesO' Brien has not minimised it, he has called for other sex attacks in Germany to be treated with the same level of horror from what I can gather.

I'm sick of women's rights being at the bottom of the pile

*we also

I'm busy this morning but if anyone would like me to I can do a rewrite of the letter to include four's points and perhaps ask for something like a parliamentary debate about balancing the rights of immigrants and the rights of women.

Emily, Islam is used to justify misogyny just as Christianity was used to justify slavery. That's it. I'm tired of having to justify myself to you.

As a woman I just want the basic human right of being able to walk around outside without fear of violence, I want that for all women in the world

Olivepip59: "a female instructor was removed from a course because two men (of the cultural background we are debating here) had refused to do the course."

That has far-reaching implications, doesnt it. What about female employees at the immigration centre, housing dept, post office, female doctors and teachers, etc.