Turkey has shot down a Russian jet

[Pantone363]

Apparently it violated their air space and ignored repeated warnings.

I was just going to ask that coffee!

'Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Turkey going to or trying to be part of the EU?'

It wants to be but was thwarted by Germany and France. Cameron wanted them to join EU. However, Merkel has offered another branch to Turkey about EU due to Turkey's help in stopping refugee crisis. Lots of forces are against letting Turkey join, but there are lots of puppets and forces who want Turkey to join, so no one knows which way that will go yet.

The US wants Turkey in EU, cements NATO relationship etc and strengthens alliance against Russia and China. But France and Germany were opposed but that may change if the EU doesn't collapse first.

France was moving closer to Russia in cooperating against Isis and the rebels, but this Turkish shootdown of the Russian jet throws a potential spanner in the works of cooperstion with Russia which is exactly what some parties want.

As people keep saying, it is just the bloody men. Always the bloody men and their willy waving. Perhaps we all ought to step in somehow? After all mumsnet is a good spokesbody for women isn't it? Can't you just see the headlines, 'mumsnet saves the world by sending Putin and [American chap who's name temporarily escapes me] to their bedrooms'. And then to round off, ground Osbourne for a year or two until he grows up. Cameron for a month until he stops being such a wet fish and agrees to go back to school.

trying for light relief

whose, not who's. I'll take Cameron to school then shall I.

'As people keep saying, it is just the bloody men.'

Yes, but it is way above the men we see on TV, the politicians. It is really powerful men who have long planned how to maintain financial hegemony over the world. Men and women politicians serve their interests.

BBC news have just said they believe the pilots are both dead.

Corbyn is cut from a different cloth. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about intervention in Syria etc

Well if the pilot has been captured by Turkish people surely the plane was over Turkey?

Found this piece reassuring:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/12013517/Dont-panic-Turkey-shooting-down-a-Russian-warplane-wont-start-World-War-3.html

Really scary

'Well if the pilot has been captured by Turkish people surely the plane was over Turkey? '

No, there are Turkmen who live in Syria just as there are Kurds who live in Syria.

Indeed fugg.

'As for Turkey joining the EU... Turkey runs with the hare and hunts with the hounds politically which makes it unreliable, unstable, and really unwanted as an EU member. '

But the US and the UK want Turkey in the EU. It is only France and Germany and some other countries who are objecting. These countries are worried about another 80 million people joining and the fact that they are not Christian culture and the effect that may have on Europe's culture and cohesion.

Turkey isn't in the EU because it's a Muslim country.

If Bulgaria and Romania can get in the EU and Turkey cannot, it's pretty obvious why.

Turkey would not have done this without this being acceptable policy for NATO. US ambassador to NATO was on Radio 4. He didn't seeme overly concerned, said Russia has been risking it flying over other's airspace. He says he doesn't think Russia will react.

Looks like this is a test for Russia. They want to see what Russia will do and it also acts as a warning to Russia.

Russia were in the wrong, end of

You can all rest easy re Turkey & the EU. That process is going nowhere and Turks don't want to join the EU anymore anyway, especially seeing how EU is struggling economically. Erdogan used the cover of aligning with EU legislation to curb the powers of the army so that nobody could take him down. Now he is finished with any pretence of joining the EU, too.

'If Bulgaria and Romania can get in the EU and Turkey cannot, it's pretty obvious why.'

Absolutely but the US and UK don't care about that aspect. It depends if teh pressure on France and Germany will one day force them to cave in and accept Turkey, if the EU survives that long.

"If Bulgaria and Romania can get in the EU and Turkey cannot, it's pretty obvious why"

Yes, the Muslim country thing is definitely a factor. Another is that Turkey has 75 million people, most of whom are very young. Bulgaria has 7 million people.

Although, if you shoot down forces who are bombing ISIS you're making a fairly firm statement.

Putin is calling it a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists".

Turkey aren't particular friends of the West anyway (fans booing the Paris minute silence for example) - it'll be interesting to see how far the West backs them up or whether they allow Russia to slap them down a tad....