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Original poster

9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

663 replies

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 12/10/2015 12:36

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
claig · 12/10/2015 23:58

Yes, it is what I believe to be the truth. I don't know so I can't say for sure. But with experience what tends to happen is that after time passes, the truth is often revealed when the elite no longer care if the people know about what happened in the past. So eventually "the dodgy dossier" is revealed for what it is and the lies about Iraqi WMD is revealed when it is all over and the elite have achieved their aims. When the 100 year secrets are revealed, when the papers are opened, a little bit more of the truth is revealed and with experience it is possible to predict when they are lying and what the truth really is before it eventually gets revealed.

claig · 13/10/2015 00:00

The elite kept the Savile stuff quiet until after he died for one more year until the Olympics and the Jubilee was over and then it started to come out because he couldn't be triedin court and couldn't say who else was involved.

DadOnIce · 13/10/2015 00:29

It's very easy to "backform" a conspiracy in the light of subsequent events. Coincidences, as mathematicians often point out, happen because they are mathematically likely. Just one example: people dream about the death of a celebrity and the next day that celebrity dies - but there's no causal link, because several hundred million people may have had dreams about other celebrities who didn't die.

So if someone starts from the pretext that a) Diana was assassinated or b) 9/11 was all staged with missiles disguised as planes (seriously, the US military must wish they had that kind of tech), then they are going to go back through history looking for selective examples which point to those conspiracies being true.

And because it's all self-selecting, they avoid the evidence which doesn't point towards it. Or the evidence which could point towards there being a conspiracy to assassinate, I don't know, Tony Blair. Nobody has gathered any of that because Tony Blair hasn't been assassinated.

It's very much like that episode of Derren Brown where he claimed to have cracked how to place sure bets on horses, and then showed us it was all about perception.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer · 13/10/2015 07:32

Gosh. I went to bed and this thread just keeps on giving.

Qwertybynature · 13/10/2015 08:11

"...it seems to me that the Daily Mail comes close except about issues which they are not allowed to tell the truth about or about which they have an agenda."

There must be an awful lot of issues they are not 'allowed' to tell the 'truth' about then. I don't wish to disrespectful but I'd question anyone who classes the DM as a credible news source, or most media sources tbh. They all have their own agenda.

claig · 13/10/2015 08:25

'There must be an awful lot of issues they are not 'allowed' to tell the 'truth' about then.'

Yes, but fewer than the areas of the more controlled under the thumb media. The Daily Mail is powerful enough to break the consensus if it wants to on more issues. It can set the agenda and go where others never dare.

claig · 13/10/2015 08:27

As Blair's former Chief of Staff said on TV, the paper the politicians fear is the Daily Mail because the Daily Mail is not beholden to them and can set the agenda that gets Middle England on side and gets the cronies teeth chattering.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 13/10/2015 09:01

Conspiracy theorists come across as very cult like.

VulcanWoman · 13/10/2015 09:16

That's because it's frightening to think these things might actually be going on.
Never underestimate what some people will do to get money and or power.

thehypocritesoaf · 13/10/2015 09:21

The daily mail - paper of the conspiracy theorist

I can see that Grin

Qwertybynature · 13/10/2015 10:00

It's a Tory paper Claig of course Blair and his band of merry men 'feared' it.

Well done OP on your post btw; poke the hornets best and sit back...Smile

claig · 13/10/2015 10:02

't's a Tory paper Claig of course Blair and his band of merry men 'feared' it. '

Cameron and the modernisers fear it just as much if not more because it is read by mainly Middle England Tories who don't like modernisers. It is the Mail which serialised Ashcroft's book "Call Me Dave".

claig · 13/10/2015 10:05

You have to remember that they "are all in it together", that they "are all the same", which is why all of them fear the paper of the people, the Daily Mail.

Qwertybynature · 13/10/2015 10:09

Each to their own Claig Smile

BaronDent · 13/10/2015 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/10/2015 10:27

DadonIce, what you describe seems to me exactly why we tend on the whole to stick with the first and loudest story we are told (e.g., the official story of 9/11), even if that story turns out to be full of holes and inconsistencies.

I'm really fascinated by the strength of the "nutty conspiracy theorist" narrative, which means people are simply written off ("stupid", "tin foil hat", "bad sex life" Hmm) on the basis of no information bar one opinion, which in this case happens to be shared by some very well informed and intelligent people.

Personally, I have never engaged in "conspiracy" theories or communities, very much set out assuming - and really wanting to believe - the official narrative of 9/11, and don't read the Daily Mail. I simply took an opportunity to assess, in as unbiased a way as I could, the merits of what we have been told about what happened, and now consider the official story not to hold up. I am not proposing any alternative "conspiracy" theories. I just think that the theory espoused by the mainstream media is, to say the least, lacking. I was interested to hear how many other people on this site have shared this experience in some form or other, and have indeed found it interesting to see what this thread has turned up.
I make no apology for not going into further detail here about what I think - I have been clear from the outset that I don't intend to. This is not the place, and I don't have time (shockingly, for someone wearing such an enormous tin foil hat, I have a job and family). Make up your mind; do your own research. Or just keep ridiculing people. Up to you Smile.

OP posts:
sparechange · 13/10/2015 10:30

I've been reading a few articles on the common traits of people who believe in conspiracy theories.

The overwhelmingly common themes are lower-than-average intelligence/education, narcissist traits and a over average levels of anxiety.
In a nutshell, this combines to create someone who thinks they should have amounted to something (the narcissism) but haven't (the lower education) and is stressed about it (anxiety).

Their defence mechanism is to find comfort in theories that say that 'they' are controlling the show and therefore their lack of achievement is out of their control. They are also likely to believe in things like astrology which focus on life being outside our own control or predetermined.

In groups with high levels of anxiety, belief in conspiracy theories is more pronounced and individuals can become more or less convinced by theories depending on how anxious they are feeling at the time.

Original poster
AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/10/2015 10:35

Categorising people who believe in alien abductions/lizard people/the illuminati with those who have calmly questioned a very specific narrative (under the overarching label of "conspiracy theorist") is a huge problem.

OP posts:
claig · 13/10/2015 10:36

'I've been reading a few articles on the common traits of people who believe in conspiracy theories.'

You shouldn't read pyschobabble promoted by the elite.

Alex Jones of infowars.com could run rings around ,aimstream jornalists, puppets and politicians in terms of knowledge about politics because he has been studying the field for 20 years. Now whether he is also part of it is another question, but don't believe that he is thick.

ExitPursuedByABear · 13/10/2015 10:43

I always wonder who 'they' are?

And this elite group who keep the rest of us dancing like puppets?

sparechange · 13/10/2015 10:45

Claig

Do you believe in astrology?

claig · 13/10/2015 10:47

'I always wonder who 'they' are?'

That is the $64,000 dollar question. No one knows for sure, but they are probably trillionaires etc, a super super rich elite who are not names that anyone knows.

claig · 13/10/2015 10:49

'Do you believe in astrology?'

Yes, I think there may be something to it. I believe in the macrocosm affecting the microcosm within nature and that patterns exist within nature and affect life. I believe that abstractions can be made by humans to see patterns among seeming chaos and that order exists in nature instead of random chaos.

sparechange · 13/10/2015 10:49

You know there are no trillionaires in the world, don't you?
What is the highest level of education you have completed, claig?

CultureSucksDownWords · 13/10/2015 10:49

What is the point of questioning why 9/11 happened? Thousands of people minding their own business were killed by 2 planes crashing into their office. That's an enormous human tragedy irrespective of who organised it or why. A bunch of very unpleasant men organised it, certainly.

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