9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

'It must be an exhausting way to live.'

Yes it can be a bit tiring trying to keep up with the lies of the "luvvies", but someone has got to do it because they are having a laugh.

The whole phenomenon of the loss in trust of the elites by the people is quite amazing and must be worrying for the luvvies. If people are beginning not to believe in "dodgy dossiers" etc, then how can the elite continue to fool the masses?

"Trust in Mass Media Returns to All-Time Low

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- After registering slightly higher trust last year, Americans' confidence in the media's ability to report "the news fully, accurately, and fairly" has returned to its previous all-time low of 40%."

www.gallup.com/poll/176042/trust-mass-media-returns-time-low.aspx

youtube, twitter, the internet etc has allowed people to communicate and bypass the official media and question what they are being told. Even left wing Democrats who are usually extremely trusting of any luvvie they can find, are begiining to doubt what they are told by them.

"Trust among Democrats, who have traditionally expressed much higher levels of confidence in the media than Republicans have, dropped to a 14-year low of 54% in 2014. Republicans' trust in the media is at 27%, one percentage point above their all-time low, while independents held steady at 38% -- up one point from 37% in 2013."

What can the luvvies do to stem the tide? Is it too late, has the internet changed everything?

The revolt of the people is evident all over the world. Here we had Farage and the People's Army followed by the stunning, staggering success of Corbyn against the combined forces of every luvvie, bigwig and puppet that the elite and the media could muster, and in America we have Bernie Sanders and the total outsider, Donal Trump, who questions practically every elite red line and rides roughshod all over it.

Are we witnessing the end of political correctness, the end of spin, the end of the lies of the luvvies and the rise of the people and their "citizen journalists"?

Donald trump is a racist misogynistic idiot. If that's what the revolution brings then I would rather stick with the elite please.

MajesticWhine, it's up to the people.

If the people want Trump, then Trump they will get. The elite are hiring every available luvvie left in a desperate attempt to try and stop The Donald and the people. No one yet knows which way it is going to go, but watching Fox News and all the rest of the mainstream media, it is clear that the elite are in meltdown and the luvvies are losing it.

It is a bit of a shame that the serious issue of the existence of massive problems in the official story about 9/11 is being obscured by discussion of lizards (entertaining as it is).

CorbynsTopButton, nothing is stopping you addressing 911 if you want to. The discussion branched off into other directions when the subject of "crisis actors" came up due to someone asking what the conspiracy theories are around some of these crises.

What are those massive problems Corbyns?

Had there been any real 'massive problems' then lizards, green or otherwise, would not have come up!

No

Hth

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, claig.

I think there are problems with a lot of elements of the narrative. Personally, for instance, I am not at all satisfied with the official story of the collapse of Building 7. The manner in which it was subsequently dealt with in investigation and reporting do not help this.

Certainly, some people (as evidenced by this thread) are satisfied with what we have been told about this, and of course that is fine. However, I personally am not (and I am certainly not alone in this. Perfectly intelligent people in very normal, non-metallic headgear agree).

On what basis are you not happy with WTC7? Do you have any sort of expertise by which to make that judgment?

Had there been any real 'massive problems' then lizards, green or otherwise, would not have come up!

I strongly disagree.

Do you have any sort of expertise by which to make that judgment?

Well, I have looked into it as logically as I can and listened to arguments (by highly qualified people) on both sides. I could never say for sure, but I have concluded (at present) that I do not believe the official account.
I am a scientist; I have two doctorates in different areas. I have listened to experts in the field.

What is your qualification to proclaim about this, by the way?

It's very interesting how quickly this gets personal, isn't it? It really is impossible to have open discussions, which is interesting in itself.

'What is your qualification to proclaim about this, by the way?'

Excellent question. Soon someone will say we are not allowed to have an opinion on a "dodgy dossier" because a spin doctor said it was good stuff.

What do you think happened with WTC7, and why? What reason would the "elite" or the govt or whoever have for deliberately misleading people as to what happened? What did they stand to gain?

CultureSucksDownWords, have you not heard of the neocon PNAC (Project for the New American Century) which mimishimmi mentioned before?

"Rebuilding America's Defenses[edit]

Written before the September 11 attacks, and during political debates of the War in Iraq, a section of Rebuilding America's Defenses entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force" became the subject of considerable controversy. The passage suggested that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, " absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor ."[45] Journalist John Pilger pointed to this passage when he argued that Bush administration had used the events of September 11 as an opportunity to capitalize on long-desired plans.[48]

Some critics went further, asserting that Rebuilding America's Defenses should be viewed as a program for global American hegemony. Writing in Der Spiegel in 2003, Jochen Bölsche claimed that Rebuilding America's Defenses "had been developed by PNAC for Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Libby," and was "devoted to matters of 'maintaining US pre-eminence, thwarting rival powers and shaping the global security system according to US interests.'"[42][49] British MP Michael Meacher made similar allegations in 2003, stating that Rebuilding America's Defences was "a blueprint for the creation of a global Pax Americana," which had been "drawn up for" key members of the Bush administration.[50] Academic Peter Dale Scott subsequently wrote

“[PNAC’s] ideology was summarized in a major position paper, Rebuilding America’s Defenses, in 2000. This document advocated a global Pax Americana unrestrained by international law…”[51]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Corbyns, I'm a structural engineer.

I too have looked at the arguments on both sides. The NIST report offers a coherent explanation. The arguments on the other side are based on misinformation (incorrectly calculating freefall velocities for example) and conjecture, together with fantastical theories which would raise far more questions than they solve.

Here are some quotes from Edward Bernays' book, Propaganda, studied by luvvies, hired by elites. Bernays was Freud's nephew and is often called the Father of Public Relations.

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”

and

“The great enemy of any attempt to change men's habits is inertia. Civilization is limited by intertia.”

which is why the elite like crises to shake up inertia and change habits in the way they intend.

I don't think anyone's paying attention claig.

“The great enemy of any attempt to change men's habits is inertia. Civilization is limited by inertia.”

Their new crisis is what they call "climate catastrophe" and they intend to use it to change habits, prospects, growth and lives of the billions of good people on the planet. But in the United States of America, one man has sprung up and has called their bluff. He has tweeted

"This global warming BULLSHIT has got to stop"

and they have hired every luvvie in the land to try and stop him. He is The Donald, Donald Trump, the people's Presidential candidate, and the game is not over yet.

whatsthat, I disagree. I think it is NIST who are misrepresenting.
I do not think Building 7 was brought down by fires, fueled by "ordinary office combustibles at ordinary combustibles", with all the corollaries they propose.

You and I cannot settle this here, as it is far too involved and we are unlikely to get anywhere. I am happy for you to hold your belief, and I don't want to argue you out of it, as you have clearly looked into it and come to a very different conclusion from mine. But I disagree with you. I also find it strange that people are not happy to let those who are sceptical of the official story hold and express their opinions without ridicule and resorting to "tin foil hat" dismissals.

CorbynsTopButton, what do you actually think happened to WTC7 and why? What did the "elite" or the "govt" or whoever have to gain from whatever they did?

Culture, did I mention the "elite", or the "government", at any point?