Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

islamist extremists strike in france

999 replies

KareninsGirl · 07/01/2015 13:00

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

OP posts:
noddyholder · 09/01/2015 11:51

Well said Timetoask

LostMyBaubles · 09/01/2015 11:51

Lmao. People like me??

My mum is white my dad is muslim and Im refusing to mix in?
Really??

My parents taught us that if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all.
I like to believe there are decent people outthere who think the same.

If you met me you wouldnt think im muslim.

I dont wear a hijab or kee all my body covered. I live like 'westerners' fuck my brother's drink what more do you want??
All im saying is no one should mock another person's beliefs is that wrong??

Nancy66 · 09/01/2015 11:54

Lostmybaubles - that reads like you fuck your brothers

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/01/2015 11:55

'All im saying is no one should mock another person's beliefs is that wrong??'

I think it is absolutely wrong.
Why is religious belief so special? What about religions that were made up recently and for cynical reasons (which is why I gave the example of Scientology)? What about when religions are doing things that are deeply, deeply harmful - why can we not be free to say so and use a satirical means of expression to say it? Yes it will upset people but no-one was the right not to be upset. Like most people, I'm upset by quite a few things that religions do and say, but I don't think I should have the right to silence them.

BackOnlyBriefly · 09/01/2015 11:57

All the imams are saying its wrong but they arent going to let you take the piss out of one ofthe most important people in Islam.

" arent going to let you"?

Oh you mean "shut up or I will kill you!"

For the record, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus and the rest of the gang are imaginary people/creatures made up by people. They are no different from Thor, Fairies and so on. Their followers are deluded. Often through being indoctrinated from a young age, but deluded nonetheless.

LemonySnug · 09/01/2015 11:58

Lostmybaubles you think you are integrated but you are not.

Mocking other people's beliefs is very healthy, that is how change comes about, that is how people start thinking through things, questioning assumptions, that is the start of scientific discovery.

MonstrousRatbag · 09/01/2015 12:00

'All im saying is no one should mock another person's beliefs is that wrong??'

I think it is wrong, myself, but I also think you have every right to say it.
And telling Lostbaubles she's condoning the attacks (she specifically condemned them) and giving all Muslims a bad name is, I think, completely unfair.

LemonySnug · 09/01/2015 12:04

I am increasingly coming to the view that mass Muslim immigration has brought Europe nothing and cost it a fortune. Recently, Hans Werner Sinn, well known German economist, has demonstrated, that where Christian immigrants integrate, Muslim immigrants foolhardy refuse, coming at a huge cost to society (need for massive additional educational expenditure, extensive benefits, larger healthcare needs etc. and in return they don't condemn the hosts who have given them all being shot, SHAME ON YOU).

Of course there is going a backlash, PEGIDA is only going to be the start no doubt. In the past I would have joined demonstrations against PEGIDA, but now I won't anymore.

What goes round, comes round. Enough is enough.

Still, I won't go round shooting people.

LostMyBaubles · 09/01/2015 12:06

Lol. No u don't fuck my brothers. Thats should read fuck. My brothers...

Backonly when did I say that?? Wtf are youon??
Dont try mixing my words.

Think what ever the fuck you want to think.

Fuck it.

No use banging my head against a brick wall.
Would hate to meet your kids if they are being brought up with so much hate. Why csnt we all just live in peace and not fuck anyone else off??

Nancy66 · 09/01/2015 12:07

I think everyone on this thread would love nothing more than to live in peace...

buffyp · 09/01/2015 12:08

Well personally back I would rather be a nice deluded person who didn't feel the need to be deliberately offensive than someone with your attitude but each to their own. Lost, I get where you're coming from but religious leaders of whatever faith don't get to dictate what people who don't follow that faith can or can't do. People have the right to be offensive as demonstrated above. However you also have the right to express your opinion as do I mine and personally I think some people here are not the wonderfully tolerant people they are trying to portray themselves as.
Incidentally back Jesus did exist historically but I suspect you know that and just wish to be provocative.

Legionofboom · 09/01/2015 12:09

Yes it is wrong if you are saying that no-one should have the right to mock another person's beliefs.

The thing is with freedom of speech is we are all for it until someone says something that we find offensive. Then we think freedom of speech has gone too far. But it almost always hasn't.

It is important to remember that with freedom of speech comes the freedom to (among other things) offer counter arguments, make a complaint, label the person a total fuckwit or simply ignore.

What is more important is that people are able to see things for what they are. Let people say what they like. What matters is which things people give credence to imo.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 09/01/2015 12:15

The use of satire goes back to Ancient Greece. One ancient tradition that actually does remain useful to society.

Baubles imho and according to the laws and societal norms of the UK and many other countries you are wrong, but you have the freedom to feel and say what you do without fear of being killed.

I find it interesting, though, that you define your mother as white and your father as muslim. Her colour, his religion. Neither of their nationalities, and not her religion.

BackOnlyBriefly · 09/01/2015 12:24

LostMyBaubles you said All the imams are saying its wrong but they arent going to let you take the piss out of one ofthe most important people in Islam

Care to explain "they arent going to let you take the piss"?

You could have said "they arent going to like you taking the piss" which has a quite different meaning

BackOnlyBriefly · 09/01/2015 12:30

Incidentally back Jesus did exist historically but I suspect you know that and just wish to be provocative.

Well I wasn't going to get into details, but since you mention it :)

Despite popular belief there is no real evidence that Jesus existed and some that strongly suggests he didn't. What we can be sure of is that the Jesus as described didn't exist. Magic man creating wine, healing dead people, dying to make up for Adam & Eve eating that fruit and coming back etc.

So he may have been completely invented or he could have been a real guy and they wrote fictional stories about him.

aermingers · 09/01/2015 12:40

Saying Charlie Hebdo provoked it is a red herring. Because they wanted to attack somebody. They are now attacking pretty much randomly so this is not a crime driven purely by anger at the CH cartoons, it's hatred of all Westerners.

If it hadn't been Charlie Hebdo they would have found somebody else to take offence at who was slightly less offensive to them. And believe me shrinking back from 'offending Islam' won't appease them. Las the world shrinks back in fear from 'offending Islam' people like these terrorists will simply become offended by milder and milder perceived insults until we'd be at the point where a dinner lady who inadvertently put a slice of ham on a sandwich are being shot.

Appeasing people this mad doesn't satisfy them. It simply encourages them to demand more and more concessions are made to them.

DoraGora · 09/01/2015 12:45

I suppose that argument centres around what one considers to be real evidence. If we need a DNA testable body, then I guess Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great didn't exist either.

DoraGora · 09/01/2015 12:47

I rather doubt that this has anything to do with appeasement. I'd put my money on this being about control.

DoraGora · 09/01/2015 12:49

I don't think they're mad, either. I think they know exactly what they're doing. Some extremist plans are written for all to see.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 09/01/2015 12:55

Incredible to read terrorist apologists on this thread. It's gutting really.

Tsoukalosy · 09/01/2015 12:58

Bomb went off yesterday in a kebab shop, policewoman and civillian shot police killed, 12 killed wednesday at least 20 shot and injured this morning a hostage taken now a shooting in a kosher supermarket in paris all in the name of islam but people think we shouldnt be allowd to critisise.

KareninsGirl · 09/01/2015 12:58

Another shooting outside a kosher grocery in Paris. hostages including women and children being held.

Wheh is enough enough?????

OP posts:
WetAugust · 09/01/2015 12:59

When we look back at 911, followed by the Madrid Bombings, the July 7 London attacks, etc I think we all interpreted them as an attack on The West for supporting the wars in Iraq, etc. We responded by launching a vague War on the noun Terror and invading Irag and Afghanistan. We had ignored the previous attacks, the USS Cole, the Nairobi Embassy bombings, etc and were not greatly affected by the Bali Bombings or the slaying of Theo Van Gogh, or the multitude of attacks that we wrote off as 'lone wolf'. Our eyes were well and truly shut.

What we should have realised is that 911 and all these attacks are not just attacks on press freedom or punishment for involving ourselves in foreign wars, they are attacks on Western Civilisation itself. These attacks are committed to show power, to show a total disregard of Western values and to terrify anyone who may think or trying to hit back.

So we never did have that debate that asked the question "What do they want" as we knew that what they wanted was a caliphate and that was not acceptable. We never answered the problem of "how do we protect ourselves either ?" Sure we introduced some measures such as cockpit security or not flying with sharp weapons etc. But these are just sticking plasters.

Meanwhile we took the view that appeasement was probably the best way to avoid another attack. Even the BBC has stated that their guidelines prohibit any imaginary of the Prophet etc as they do not want to offend Muslim sensibilities. That's why Rotherham abuse went unchecked, because Dennis Shane Ex MP admitted the authorities did not want to offend Muslim sensibilities.

When a sector if society is treated differently to the rest of society because it threatens you then free speech and even the egalitarian application of the law is dead,

Once a sector realises it has that power, their logical response is to try to grab more power. So you see illegal signs in London, telling people that this in an Islamic area and dogs / gays / alcohol / clubbers etc are banned. You have school governing boards taken over, head teachers bullied out of their posts and school funds diverted to schools in Pakistan. We already have Sharia courts. we have already seen the Law Society try to promote the drafting if Sharia compliant wills. It's already legal within Canadian law system. Is that what we I'll adopt next ? Will we be told we cannot keep dogs because they are 'haram' We already have cases taxi drivers refusing to carry Guide Dogs. I no longer buy lamb as the thought of it being slaughtered in such a barbaric way to conform with someone else's belief system sickens me

And so the slow insidious attack on Western freedoms is whittled away by our failure to confront this bigotry because we are scared of offending sensibilities. Or do we really mean that we are scared even terrified of the backlash that enforcing the law might cause?

I was disturbed to read down thread of the teachers account of trying to get through to those bigoted pupils. I as also disturbed that someone who calls their self a moderate Muslim refuses to even countenance any criticism of her religion. In doing so that person has contravened my 'religion', that I too hold dear, which is free speech. it also makes me think that religion that demands no criticism and that dictates that any apostates should be killed is actually a pretty nasty belief system that has to keep even its own believers in fear of retribution from it,

I find it utterly depressing that educated people in the 21st century living in a Western country, cannot see for themselves that benign belief systems have followers who chose to follow them not those who are forced to follow it under great of death. And that is what Islam is forcing me to so - to follow it (no criticism) under threat of my death.

And that is not acceptable and I will not conform to your beliefs

So I wonder if we will eventually be a country in which the daily slayings on the streets of Britain by Islamic extremists are so un newsworthy as to not even make it into the news - as the series if attacks in France In the days BEFORE Charlie Hebdo failed to be reported by the news and were hushed-up as 'lone wolf' attacks or that the perpetrators "mentally ill". All rubbish - all designed to keep as calm, keep us unquestioning. And as I write this there has been yet another shooting and hostage in Paris.

Is that a world that you want to live in our want your children to live in, scared that you'll become a victim of a random religiously motivated killing?

Becauae MI5 said last night that it was impossible to protect us against these sort of attacks. That is a game-changer. The whole point if having Defence is protect Britain and it's peoples. When the authorities admit that you are no longer safe on the streets of your own country then action is long overdue. But no action will be taken because - you guessed it. We don't want to upset sensibilities.

Repeat and rinse.

BackOnlyBriefly · 09/01/2015 13:04

DoraGora I can't recall all the details right now, but there were several threads that collected together all the available information and opinions.

Some thought that there were Roman records of his existence, but that turned out not to be the case. Funnily enough I was taught that was true when I was a kid.

There were flat out contradictions in the matter of the census that led to Jesus being born in a stable and which ruler was in power then. Also timing problems with the Massacre of the Innocents.

Scholars apparently think Josephus' mention was edited later, but even if it wasn't he didn't really say enough to matter.

Lots of the evidence later on actually only indicates that there were people who said there had once been someone called Jesus and really that isn't in dispute.

There's also the lack of mention anywhere of all the things you would expect to me recorded.

When Jesus 'died' it was a big event.

"And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

You'd think Josephus would have added "and you won't believe what happened when he died". :)

So a bit more than a lack of DNA evidence.

Really though it doesn't matter much. If we found proof there was a guy back then it wouldn't really change anything. I'd be fascinated to know as some of the things he was supposed to have said were quite good and sensible.

Tsoukalosy · 09/01/2015 13:04

wetaugust i 100% agree with you there, enough is enough we need to stand up for our own beliefs and that is the belief of freedom without oppression.

Swipe left for the next trending thread