islamist extremists strike in france

[KareninsGirl]

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

So go ahead and criticise the illiberal aspects of extreme Islam. It shouldn't bother main stream Muslims who probably agree with you.

I imagined me what does irritate your average British Muslim is being cast in the role as "defender/apologist of radical Islam.

Watching live TV is a farce because they just make shit up to try and keep people watching. It's the worst kind of voyeurism as they are making terrorism entertainment. If you're watching do the world a favour and turn it off.

Events taking place near where I live. I'd rather be kept up to date by radio reports.

Le Monde's live feed is quite good, and quick to revise if it realises it's been misinformed.

Thanks Auld.

I am against war. I am against terror. Bit I am NOT Charlie. I don't go around hurting and insulting religious groups of people and remorselessly carry on doing it to provoke an extreme reaction. It is like if I went up to a random stranger in the street and starting attacking them (although the pen is even mightier than the sword). They might lash out disproportionately. Boo - hoo, I wasn't just a decent citizen going about my daily life waging hate over a long period of time, even though I got more than I bargained for in return. Why are Muslim lives in Palestine and Iraq practically worthless compared to the scant number of Western lives lost. A lot of posters on these threads really suck.

Forumummy, I think your analysis of a supportive culture breeding this is excellent.

They might lash out disproportionately.

Ah yes, executing a crowd of cartoonist is merely 'lashing out disproportionately.

Why do you say you are against terror when you clearly support it?

It is like if I went up to a random stranger in the street and starting attacking them

You really think so, do you?

permacult. ....."lashing out disproportionately "??????

I'd say that was a massive understatement, wouldn't you?

The publicatiin has ridiculed and parodied all religions. Not one other has massacred the employees.

write a letter of complaint, yes. kill people in cold blood? NO!!

free speech is precious.

It's not just extreme Islam Though ToomanyChristmasPresents there is a problem with moderate Islam too - many Muslims have come out and said the terrorist attacks are wrong, have condemned the brutal murders but that is not enough. They need to come out and say Charlie Hebdo had every right to publish the cartoons even if they (Muslims) found them offensive or blasphemous.

babbas - who cares if you find it offensive? I read things everyday that I find offensive. It matters not one whit, it confers no special status, it simply means you are offended, nothing more than that. It is not an end game argument, you (or me, or anyone else) being offended does not mean someone has done something wrong or that they must stop.

I agree with aermingers Forumummy.

Permacult you are so wrong.

If it hadn't been Charlie Hebdo it would have been some other media outlet or government building or school or shopping mall. Because these people want to commit these sorts of atrocities, they want attention, they want to set people against each other, they are driven by their own ego, their own bloodlust, and the money they are being paid by their support networks.

Charlie Hebdo dissects/pokes fun at all - one particular religion or politician cannot and should not be excluded from that, because then they become "other" - not really one of us. Ironically, poking fun at Islam alongside Judaism and Christianity is a sign of societal inclusion in the minds of the writers and editors.

Finally, your assertion that MNers don't care about what's happening in other countries - to Muslims - is erroneous and offensive. The threads may not be huge or make page 1 of Chat, but then good news stories in other countries don't normally make page 1 of Chat, either.

I think people who require moderate muslims to proclaim that it's OK to satirise the prophet in cartoons, even if it's offensive, are missing the point. Today it's cartoons. Yesterday it was the Satanic Verses. Tomorrow it will be something else. The point is not that writing this or that article is allowed. The point is that shooting people who write things that you don't like is not OK. And that's a point that many moderate muslims do make via the media, frequently.

permacult you said A lot of posters on these threads really suck.

Since I'm sure I was one of them I could be offended. Do you fear what I might do to you?

There's no need to because I don't kill people who offend me.

It may be a point far too obvious to make. But, I can't help but get the impression that the extremists are doing these outrageous things because it upsets people. And, the cartoons are just an excuse.

Did you know that ISIS actually has a doctrine with three parts and one part (the first part) is called vexation operations. And they consist of deliberately doing lots of outrageous things in order to upset other nations.

What's that all about?

Permacult, do you not think that if a magazine or newspaper is published in complete isolation? They aren't. They depend upon sales to keep going - most are working really near the knuckle. If people don't like what is being published they don't buy it and the paper folds.

There are letters to Private Eye regularly from people who have been offended and threatening to can cel their subscription. Most are joking. I'm sure it is the same with Charlie Hebdo.

If people don't like a paper, they simply don't buy it, or they complain about it, or they ignore it, or they write letters complaining. They don't run into their offices and kill everyone. Oh wait.....

We are muslims.
Not strict muslims.

The attack was disgusting.

As for letting them take the piss out of our prophet thats a big no. No one should take the piss out of anyones religion or beliefs be it muslims, Christians, Jewish etc.
Morals should be brought in to it. Im all for freedom of speech to a certain extent. No name calling any religion.

All the imams are saying its wrong but they arent going to let you take the piss out of one ofthe most important people in Islam. They dont teach hate. They teach love for all things living as we are Allah's creation. I understand not all believe that but thats what we believe.

In a free country you can take the piss out of almost everything. And the things you can't are specified by law, not by imams. That's the whole point of living in a free country.

I think some people need freedom 101 lessons.

It's satire and part of our culture Piss taking is something else entirely. I think all religion is evil but am still respectful of others beliefs

Imams saying it is wrong doesn't make it wrong??

Lostmybaubles I think you have lost a bit more than your baubles, I think you have lost the plot.

People like you, give Muslims as a group a bad name. People like you show your refusal to integrate in Western society.

I feel hugely offended by people like you. I also feel hugely offended by women wearing veils in Europe (I don't mind in Arab countries, I just don't go there and if I was to go there I would adapt to their customs). Muslims are increasingly under fire because they expect others to adapt to their demands and refuse to integrate. Others have to tiptoe around their ridiculous sensitivities. I am not a Muslim, I don't believe in Allah (or any god for that matter), I don't feel respect for people who believe in nonsense, people who are unscientific.

I am offended, I don't feel respect, but I don't go out shooting people. You know what this is called: Western civilization.

LostMyBaubles, where do you draw the line?
The cartoonist Mac says he doesn't take the piss out of religion, he takes the piss out of the abuse of religion.

Do you really think every religion on earth deserves to never be mocked? What about Scientology?

Not an expert, but I get the general idea of domestic terrorism. If you don't have the power to bring down a government (and they don't really) then you prod it into changing its behaviour. New laws restricting the speech, movement and privacy of potential terrorists affect everyone and can lead to a point where the citizens get fed up with the government and want to bring it down.

It can also have the effect of the government doing your job for you. Banning/deleting inappropriate speech and posts. Redefining racism as 'saying things that someone out there might not like'.

Even without new laws there can be an unconscious effect where ordinary people decide not to post an opinion or a cartoon because it's not worth the trouble it will cause.

You do have to increase security - there's no getting away from that, but it's also important to keep saying the things out loud and not let the fear take away your right to free speech.

I'm all for freedom of speech to a certain extent

This is a very dangerous affirmation you have made. You are basically condoning what these people have done. The magazine has published cartoons about politicians and other religions. The Pope was shown recently in one of them, Jesus has been on several, you don't see Christians and Catholics shooting others because of this.

As a moderate muslim you should be refuting these actions full stop, no "ifs" no "buts" no "...to a certain extent".